A rather violent game. (9 kyu vs 10 kyu)

Sevis · Post by **Sevis** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:00 am

Just finished a quite brutal game. Added some comments on moves in the SGF; I'm mostly interested in how I could have improved my opening, as I think I was a little too busy chasing stuff around...

Also, I've recently noticed that I have almost no trouble when playing against 10-11 kyu players, but lose horribly whenever I'm against an 8-9 kyu; is there any kind of piece of knowledge that I should currently be trying to grasp?

Thanks,

Sevis

jts · Post by **jts** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:38 am

20: Too early for G2, I think. You should be happy to let him crawl along the second line at this stage of the game, so unless you are certain that you can kill him if he doesn't respond (if you can't, it's not sente), don't play it yet. Harassing d10 is a higher priority.
28: Same comment as move 20. Note that your variation is wrong... even after W captures, if B does nothing it's seki.
44: Read out the knight's move (o9). Black's stones have no base: capturing them firmly would be fine, if you can, but attacking them at a distance is a more sound strategy in general.

The sequence through 100 strikes me as pretty bad for you (relative to what you could have hoped for). Weak black stones at k4 and d10 are connected and 120% safe.

From this game I might guess that the main difference between crushing DDK's and getting crushed by SDK's is that you make lots of medium-sized gote moves, which the former treat as sente, and which the latter ignore. When your opponent responds to a gote move, that is a huge gain for you; but if you play gote moves too early, your opponent will always have the initiative.

But it also seems that you haven't learned yet how to subtly apply pressure to weak enemy groups, and make huge profits while your opponent saves them. "Attack and Defense" from Kiseido is really good for that.

It's hard to say anything definitive, though. :b5:

was a 3-3 invasion. Stronger players won't give you gifts like that. Why don't you post a couple of the games that you lost?

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:46 am

20: That is at best a big endgame move. It is gote.( I think) Why do you need it now? If he takes it himself, you just reply with H3 and thank him.
Bigger and better would be something like F11, pushing him toward your wall.

44: I would have played L5 or Q8.

76: You are way over-extended here. If you must continue attacking, do so with a solid move like J7 which creates no more weaknesses. Better might be patching weaknesses with R9.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:50 am

Sevis wrote:..

Also, I've recently noticed that I have almost no trouble when playing against 10-11 kyu players, but lose horribly whenever I'm against an 8-9 kyu; is there any kind of piece of knowledge that I should currently be trying to grasp?

Yes: that you are 10K :lol:

Seriously, the best short piece of advice would be 'make fist before striking'. You attack precipitously, leaving weaknesses in your own position. If your attack does not result in an immediate kill, your opponent eventually exploits those weaknesses.

Toge · Post by **Toge** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:53 am

I think your opening was just fine. Black made a bad move by invading at 3x3 right away and you even solved the L&D problem there in the corner. Play like that and games are over before they even truly begin.

54 variation: yes it would. That's a good tactic to first increase liberties and then cast a net.

74: one thing to watch out for is overplaying. White now gets cut but what's even worse is that he tries to save these stones.

84 variation: the ko is not very important. The bottom group is clearly alive and the left group can certainly make two eyes at the edge with 2 consecutive moves (ko threat and carrying it out)

90: this move I think would be better spent to defend the now heavy g7 group. Black will live most certainly and being over-committed to killing is poor strategy.

146: this was overplay. Better to just connect. Make sure the group lives, but otherwise leave these small corridor plays to the later parts of endgame.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:03 am

Does 250 at C19 kill? I'm too lazy to read it out.

Sevis · Post by **Sevis** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:28 am

Thank you for the comments, everyone.

I had indeed noticed a ridiculous number of weaknesses that were left over, but attacking some more seemed like a better idea at the time. I'll try to get a game against a stronger player up sometime soon.

I think 250 leads to a ko:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ ------------- $$ | 4 3 1 . X . . $$ | 5 2 6 X X O . $$ | X X X O X O O $$ | O O O O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

red_z06 · Post by **red_z06** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:31 am

It would be difficult for ddk to ignore capture. But, there is a saying "Catch stones and lose" Sometimes it is good to sit back and count how many point each move is worth. Not sure if you figured out the seki. But, 29, 31 gained you exactly 8 points gote. That is 4 points each move. Since it is a point race, think about places that are worth more than 4 points each.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Fri May 27, 2011 11:00 am

A few words about the business in the lower left.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Fri May 27, 2011 11:26 am

Sevis wrote:Thank you for the comments, everyone.

I had indeed noticed a ridiculous number of weaknesses that were left over, but attacking some more seemed like a better idea at the time. I'll try to get a game against a stronger player up sometime soon.

I think 250 leads to a ko:

$$Wc
$$ -------------
$$ | 4 3 1 . X . .
$$ | 5 2 6 X X O .
$$ | X X X O X O O
$$ | O O O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc $$ ------------- $$ | 4 3 1 . X . . $$ | 5 2 6 X X O . $$ | X X X O X O O $$ | O O O O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ ------------- $$ | . 2 1 . X . . $$ | 4 3 . X X O . $$ | X X X O X O O $$ | O O O O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

I think that :b2:

makes a better ko for Black, as a rule.

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Fri May 27, 2011 11:28 am

250 at B18 seems to kill?

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Fri May 27, 2011 12:51 pm

@Daniel: For your variation at :w30:

, black would not play :b31:

but would tenuki, leaving a seki shape. For some reason I also thought white had a kill at first, but (at least by :w30:

,) white does not.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Fri May 27, 2011 1:39 pm

Dusk Eagle wrote:@Daniel: For your variation at , black would not play but would tenuki, leaving a seki shape. For some reason I also thought white had a kill at first, but (at least by ,) white does not.

Ah, good point, I left that variation in from the original sgf and obviously didn't pay enough attention to it

mitsun · Post by **mitsun** » Fri May 27, 2011 2:40 pm

Bill Spight wrote:
$$Wc
$$ -------------
$$ | . 2 1 . X . .
$$ | 4 3 . X X O .
$$ | X X X O X O O
$$ | O O O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc $$ ------------- $$ | . 2 1 . X . . $$ | 4 3 . X X O . $$ | X X X O X O O $$ | O O O O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

I think that makes a better ko for Black, as a rule.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ ------------- $$ | . . 3 . X . . $$ | . 1 2 X X O . $$ | X X X O X O O $$ | O O O O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

But for W, killing without ko trumps that rule

Sevis · Post by **Sevis** » Fri May 27, 2011 3:30 pm

Bill Spight wrote:
Sevis wrote:Thank you for the comments, everyone.

I had indeed noticed a ridiculous number of weaknesses that were left over, but attacking some more seemed like a better idea at the time. I'll try to get a game against a stronger player up sometime soon.

I think 250 leads to a ko:

$$Wc
$$ -------------
$$ | 4 3 1 . X . .
$$ | 5 2 6 X X O .
$$ | X X X O X O O
$$ | O O O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc $$ ------------- $$ | 4 3 1 . X . . $$ | 5 2 6 X X O . $$ | X X X O X O O $$ | O O O O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

$$Wc
$$ -------------
$$ | . 2 1 . X . .
$$ | 4 3 . X X O .
$$ | X X X O X O O
$$ | O O O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc $$ ------------- $$ | . 2 1 . X . . $$ | 4 3 . X X O . $$ | X X X O X O O $$ | O O O O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

I think that makes a better ko for Black, as a rule.

Why would this be a better ko?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc elsewhere $$ ------------- $$ | 4 O O . X 3 . $$ | 1 X X X X O . $$ | X X X O X O O $$ | O O O O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

It seems to me, that in this variation, after white has one the ko once, he must win it again, as it takes three moves to kill.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc elsewhere $$ ------------- $$ | 1 . O . X . . $$ | X O 3 X X O . $$ | X X X O X O O $$ | O O O O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

Here, everything is clearly dead.

I see that the plays in the corner were a bad idea... I have the feeling I should simply forbid myself from playing on the second line until turn 50 or so, unless joseki calls for it.

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Re: A rather violent game. (9 kyu vs 10 kyu)

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Re: A rather violent game. (9 kyu vs 10 kyu)

Re: A rather violent game. (9 kyu vs 10 kyu)