Monkey jump example

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hyperpape
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Monkey jump example

Post by hyperpape »

I'm wondering about the best response to a monkey jump in a recent tournament game I played. My opponent responded at :w2:, which didn't seem to work.

I can't remember all the details of the board: you can assume that the squared stones are alive, as well as the main white group. I can't remember the upper middle/right very well. I think at the time it was a rather loose white area. Black couldn't directly play in there, but did eventually invade after some fighting on the right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 5 . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . 2 a 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ # # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . @ . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ This does not seem promising for White.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 8 1 3 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . 9 2 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ # # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . @ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . @ . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Monkey jump example

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

It is hard to say what is best without knowing what is to the right, particularly in the shaded area.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . 1 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 2 . . ? ? ? ? . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . ? ? ? ? . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If it is like this, for example, the invaders die after 5:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 6 1 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 2 5 . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which means that black's best is to allow white to block there:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . 1 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 5 . 2 6 . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and exit with sente.

If black has stone in the shaded area of the first diagram, it is hard to say what is best.
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Re: Monkey jump example

Post by hyperpape »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:It is hard to say what is best without knowing what is to the right, particularly in the shaded area.


Hmm, as I said, I can't quite remember. I'm sorry if the question is just way too open-ended to get a grip on. I almost never see these monkey jumps into such an open area, so I wanted to ask, even if I couldn't reproduce the whole position.

There was a large open area to the right, enough that Black was eventually able to split the circled stones off from the left and threaten their life.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ I doubt this is quite right. But the board might have looked a bit like this.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . 1 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 2 . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . W . . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Maybe like this. The two circled stones were there for sure. There may have been a black stone near the squared point.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . 1 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 2 . . . . . . . O W X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . W . . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . # . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


the invaders die after 5


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 6 1 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 8 7 2 5 . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 0 9 . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O X X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X 7 X 8 . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X 6 . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O 3 2 . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 5 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems you're right about that.
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Re: Monkey jump example

Post by Prodigious »

Another idea for white, although whether black is able to cut at 6 instead of 5 depends on the precise placement of stones on the top side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 5 3 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 2 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black can cut, white will have to compromise a bit with something like this I guess

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 9 6 3 1 5 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 7 2 @ 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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