Semedori from my game last night

yoyoma · Post by **yoyoma** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:01 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X O X b X X O O . X O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X O . X O X O O X X O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X O O O O X X X X O O X | $$ | . . . , . . . X , . . O O O O O O X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . . a X X X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here is a simplified version of a position that happened in my game at the Austin club last night. Black to play, what's the status? Should Black play a, b, or tenuki? Or does it not matter?

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:16 pm

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:19 pm

Edit: Also,

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:28 pm

i will not hide..what is the point?
"b" is an endgame (i think 3 point value gote).
"a" ia a dame. 0 point value.

so if you have anything bigger than 3 point gote you should tenuki.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:56 pm

flOvermind · Post by **flOvermind** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:23 am

Magicwand wrote:i will not hide..what is the point?
"b" is an endgame (i think 3 point value gote).
"a" ia a dame. 0 point value.

so if you have anything bigger than 3 point gote you should tenuki.

Are you sure?

Bill Spight wrote:Now Black has a 1 pt. sente.

Nice one, I missed that

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:02 am

flOvermind wrote:Are you sure?

after some more thinking... i think it is two point sente.

yes it is dead but if you connect at "b" white have to play two more stones then when when white atari and all sequences are sente.

i think bill is wrong on this..

flOvermind · Post by **flOvermind** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:06 am

Magicwand wrote:yes it is dead but if you connect at "b" white have to play two more stones then when when white atari and all sequences are sente.

i think bill is wrong on this..

Ah, yes, I miscounted the played stones. I always mix these up... So yes, two point sente, plus a one point sente followup.

Actually, I think your move and Bill's don't make a difference...

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:21 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc White reverse sente $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . X X O O . X O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X O 1 X O X O O X X O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X O O O O X X X X O O X | $$ | . . . , . . . X , . . O O O O O O X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X a . . X X X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Result: -25

If Black plays sente, the result is -22. (Black gets 1 point at "a".)

yoyoma · Post by **yoyoma** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:54 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . X X O O b X O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X O 2 X O X O O X X O X | $$ | . . . . . . . X O O O O X X X X O O X | $$ | . . . , . . . X , . . O O O O O O X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . . 1 X X X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the game I was Black, and I played :b1:

. After

my hand was moving towards b when I suddenly realized white will not respond to my capture by throwing back in but instead by living independently. My beautiful semedori was ruined!

Another interesting thing is earlier white had a choice between O18 and Q19, and that choice actually makes a difference.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:43 pm

Bill Spight wrote:If Black plays sente, the result is -22. (Black gets 1 point at "a".)

yes.. then it is 5 point sente?
if not ..where did i count wrong?

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:03 pm

Magicwand wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:If Black plays sente, the result is -22. (Black gets 1 point at "a".)

yes.. then it is 5 point sente?
if not ..where did i count wrong?

It's a 3 point sente. I think that you counted the 2 points but not the point at "a". Yes?

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:22 pm

Bill Spight wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:If Black plays sente, the result is -22. (Black gets 1 point at "a".)

yes.. then it is 5 point sente?
if not ..where did i count wrong?

It's a 3 point sente. I think that you counted the 2 points but not the point at "a". Yes?

yes you are correct...
i dont know where i cameup with 5 points (i guess i was really tired when i posted that thread)

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Semedori from my game last night

Semedori from my game last night

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