losing with 9 stones 19x19

Xaos · Post by **Xaos** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:10 am

Xaos · Post by **Xaos** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:12 am

I'm sure I did plenty wrong, but I'd also like to know if by chance I did anything right. I read (I think it was the River Go Series) that most mistakes are good ideas poorly executed. I'd like to know where those errors are as well.. Thanks!

Thigns started to wrong on move 57/58

emeraldemon · Post by **emeraldemon** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:29 am

just connect, don't let white capture this stone

:b26:

play p6 or r5, your move doesn't do much.

:b32:

what are you trying to do with these? Don't play so close to your own strength.

:b40:

another small move, doesn't attack anything. Something around F14 would cut off that white group.

:b52:

really small, doesn't threaten white or make territory. Don't play so close to your own strength.

:b54:

same problem with this move

:b56:

play b8 instead.

:b62:

white gave you a nice free atari at A10.

:b66:

doesn't do much.

:b68:

Ok, forget every other comment I've made. Just concentrate on this move. E10 and D11 are both ways for the black stones to connect. Whichever white tries to take, black can take the other. The black stones can't be cut off. That means your move is the same as passing. If you learn to see this shape and not play it, you will instantly get stronger.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:43 am

6: Why didn't you follow through on the cut? D5 connects your stones and seperates black's.
8: D6 is an important stone. Save it and white is left with 2 cutting points while you are solidly connected. Let white capture and you are cut while whie is solidly connected.
14: Good. You see how that affects the strength of both groups.
16: Connect at D7 to settle your side group and threaten to cut white's.

Xaos wrote:
Thigns started to wrong on move 57/58

It's natural to think that the point when an opponent destroys your group is the point when things went wrong, but usually it happens as a result of an earlier mistake. In this case, can you see how your problems from 57 onwards were all caused by you not saving the d6 stone or connecting at D5?

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:52 am

Unusedname · Post by **Unusedname** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:22 pm

You seem to have a very severe fear of being cut.
So I will relieve you of some of your fear.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c This is a label for the diagram. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . B . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 X . . . . . , . . . . 5 X . . . | $$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this group can not be separated!
if white plays 2 black plays 3
if white plays 4 black plays 5
Although the groups are not physically connected, they can not be separated.

Everytime you play a move connecting a group that's already can't be separated you are letting white gain more and more points while you do nothing.

A lot of your moves were spent connecting stones that didn't need to be connected. Once you are more confident in the connection between your stones you will be able to play moves that take more points.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:33 pm

Some comments on the opening.

You feel like things started to go wrong at move 57. By then you had already lost around 60 pts. But you still had a huge lead. By move 103, however, the game is close. And White went on to a huge win.

Plainly, 9 stones was not enough. This was a teaching game. The worst part of the game for Black in terms of points lost per move was from around move 50 to around move 100. I do not have time now to analyze that part of the game, but it is worth thinking about.

White won without fighting. Black failed to attack White and failed to offer much resistance.

Main focus: Look at things from your opponent's point of view. Don't make it easy for him.

Edit: Added comments from move 56 to move 103.

Xaos · Post by **Xaos** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:02 pm

thanks to all!

Amelia · Post by **Amelia** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:29 pm

A lot of your moves were spent connecting stones that didn't need to be connected. Once you are more confident in the connection between your stones you will be able to play moves that take more points.

I will add this because I played a teaching game not long ago with someone around your level who made the same kind of mistakes:
once you start spreading your stones more to take more territory, white will have to cut you to win. Because you are still a beginner your judgement of when a connection is safe and when not is weak and so you will be cut apart sometimes (in fact probably quite often). The worst thing is, many weak players (perhaps slightly stronger than you) will try cutting you even though they can't. That will be the time to show your fighting spirit :rambo:

Even if your territory is safe, it is no use if that territory is too small. So you will have to walk that borderline and find out just how far you can stretch without getting too thin. Don't get discouraged if some groups end up dying as a result. That's how we all learn :mrgreen:

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:07 am

Added comments to review above.

TheBigH · Post by **TheBigH** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:46 pm

Don't forget that cutting is a double-edged sword. Your opponent may have cut you in half, but he is also cut in half.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Oh no! Cut in half! But so is white. $$ . . . . . . . $$ . . X O . . . $$ . . W X . . . $$ . . . . . . .[/go]

Here white has separated black, but it's still two groups against two, and it's black's turn. Black is not necessarily badly off. In your previous thread I mentioned that just becuase a cut is possible, doesn't make it a good idea.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:31 pm

TheBigH wrote:Don't forget that cutting is a double-edged sword. Your opponent may have cut you in half, but he is also cut in half.

$$c Oh no! Cut in half! But so is white.
$$ . . . . . . .
$$ . . X O . . .
$$ . . W X . . .
$$ . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Oh no! Cut in half! But so is white. $$ . . . . . . . $$ . . X O . . . $$ . . W X . . . $$ . . . . . . .[/go]

Here white has separated black, but it's still two groups against two, and it's black's turn. Black is not necessarily badly off. In your previous thread I mentioned that just becuase a cut is possible, doesn't make it a good idea.

Conversely though it's important (especially at the beginning) to cut where you're unsure if it works or not. Especially if playing stronger players who'll often leave cuts behind that are risky for them in handicap games because they're hoping you'll think they're not as risky as they look because the stronger player wouldn't make a mistake like that and there's some clever tesuji that means it doesn't work. Making them show you that tesuji is probably good training anyway.

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