kind of "best of" of all my worst play

oca · Post by **oca** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:53 am

I did yestrday a game wich is a kind of "best of" of all my worst play... enjoy

HIGHLIGHTS:
- move 16 - what I nice invasion... thanks to C7 I will loose them all...
- 113 good bye my stones ? no.. they will live

- 206 at least a good move (but a lucky one...) ! the wall will collapse at 212. but that will not save the game for me.
- 220 not an error... just a plain stupid move !

Tyvex · Post by **Tyvex** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:23 am

Thoughts:

Move 12 -- don't kick here. Attaching to your opponent will only make him stronger in your territory. Kicking is best when either you have a stone around K16 (preventing your opponent from making a base) or your opponent has a stone around L17 (in which case your opponent will become overconcentrated).

Move 13 -- Don't know what your opponent is doing here. This move doesn't make a base or do enough to strengthen O17.

Move 14 -- I like the idea of this move. It tries to pressure the two black stones and protect the upper left. I might play at J17 instead, just to reduce invasion possibilities.

Move 16 -- This is the correct move to follow up on F3, but the preceding black play at R8 threatens an invasion on the upper right.

Moves 17-31 -- Sequences like this come down to practicing life and death. Your opponent's hane at C2 diminished your eye space; move 21 needed to make life at B1.

Move 40 -- You're in a capturing race, and you don't have enough liberties. This atari doesn't get you any more, because two of the stones you're using to atari are in atari themselves.

Move 46 -- This move is small, threatening to take a single black stone. Even if you capture it, you don't get life, because the eye it would create is false. You need to play to run out or make life with your corner white group.

Moves 58-64 -- Attacking these black stones could be very profitable for you, even if your reading skills aren't quite there, yet. Remember, you don't have to kill the invading group to make a profit, just harass it while you make territory. You made a lot of aggressive moves here, but you let black take the upper left corner while you did so.

Move 86 -- Attaching here invites black to kill your stone. The fight that follows not only loses this white stone and the ones that try to save it but builds black strength. Attaching to your opponent usually makes your opponent stronger. Black later used this strength at move 121 to invade and cut off the stone at R10.

The rest of the game has a lot of funny business like your opponent's missed atari.

In general, play more games and do life and death problems. Reading ability is key to your growth. Hope this helps!

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:17 am

8: Corners are worth more than sides. Play something like P4 or P3.

12: As the Tyvex noted, kicking is not too good here. See this page for more details: viewtopic.php?p=36322#p36322

16: I disagree partly with the previous comment that "...This is the correct move to follow up on F3..."
Rather, this is ONE of the correct moves IF you get pincered.

The theory of the invasion after the knight's move approach is that you are willing to abandon the approach stone in return for the corner. This makes sense when your approach stone has been pincered or otherwise severely harassed.

It does not make sense for you to do this when there are acres of unused space to the right of your F3 stone.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:38 am

18: Again. you are undervaluing F3. You can use it to get more room in the corner. I'd play D2 here. If he lets you slide under while he takes the wall facing north, then C7 is too close to his wall.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Black is overconcentrated $$| . . . . . . . . . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . . . $$| . . B . . . . . . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . . . $$| . . 2 X . . . . . . . $$| . 4 O X . O . . . . . $$| . 3 5 1 . . . . . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . . . $$----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Better than the game $$| . . . . . . . . . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . . . $$| . . X . . . . . . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . . . $$| . 5 . . . . . . . . . $$| . . . X . . . . . . . $$| . . O X 4 O . . . . . $$| . . 3 1 2 . . . . . . $$| . . . . . . . . . . . $$----------------------[/go]

22: Way too thin. Try C6 or B1.

peti29 · Post by **peti29** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:04 pm

Just to give my weak 6k two cents quickly (because it's late and I need to go to sleep).

- :b9:

is interesting. It's very unusual but I wouldn't say it's downright bad.
- :b13:

should be at O-16
- :w14:

is nice, way to go!
- :w16:

is weird timing. Nothing urgent in the corner now. You can either jump to J-3 or invade at C-3 if anything bad happens. And now you let your R-10 stone very alone.
- we all make mistakes. After :w30:

(maybe earlier?) the corner is a lost case. Better use your outer stones (E-5, F-3) to either push towards the center or invade the bottom right.
- at :w56:

you are still focusing on that small, cramped group while black gets nice influence at the top left and bottom right.
- I like moves like :w114: because it has double purpose: build moyo and threaten black territory at the same time.
- :w198: yes, you need to try moves like this if you're behind!
- :w212: this was pure luck. Normally you can't expect your opponent making big mistakes like this.

oca · Post by **oca** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Thanks for all your usefull comments, really appreciated them.

I'm a bit more severe on myself as I know the reason of some moves that I'm not confortable with :
these moves are 40 and 112. for these two moves, my reading was right, I did know these moves will not do anything to help the situation, and still played them... weird...

Invading the bottom left was more based on intuition then on reading... bad idea...
I like intuitaion, but I think it is not usefull for situation like this one, I just must do my reading and not being lazy.

then I succombed to fear on move 155, as I readed to much things on the first line and just get anxious to play T16 as I excepted my opponent to reply on S16, without seeing that I would just easily eat his stone in that case...that's really strange I use to close my border the right way usually...

and finally, succombed to exitation on move 218 which has no purpose at all...(after luckily destroying the wall, I started to play way to fast...)

To summarize things up, here is what I learned from this game :

1) I should be more respectful for my opponent, I don't know him, and he accpected spending time playing with me,
so I should honor that and stop playing moves that I know to be useless( like 40 or 112).

2) I must do reading more ofen and not being lazy and "hopping it's ok" to play a move.
3) try to keep cool and don't succombe to fear or excitation.
4) Of course, I still has to improve lot on go itself but that was accpected...

Now that I'm aware of all of this I hope to do a better game next time ;-)

.

oca · Post by **oca** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:27 am

Hello,

Here is a 13x13 game I played last night on IGS.

I just got "atomized", here is the game, I was black.

My suppositions are :

- Not that bad till move :b21:

- Loose my whole left side on move :b33:

- Didn't know what to reply to move :w64:

-

is wrong I should have play at :b1:

istead of 'a' (but I was playing against the clock...)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ - - - - - - - $$ X . . a 1 . | $$ X O X O . . | $$ . X . O . . | $$ X . X X O . | $$ X . . . O . | $$ . . . X X X |[/go]

and finally move :b101: should be on the border as my opponnenent kindly told me.

Any comment welcome !

oca · Post by **oca** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:00 am

Hi,

This is a game I won on time, as my opponnent had a connexion problem, but I think he really deserve to win that game. I was very close to resign as I just missed everything from nearly move 48 I think (or maybe even move 28...)

I think I was over confident in that game as I just won two other game before and got a lot of influence in the begining of that game, and finally I lose them all...

move 52 should be d15...
move 60 and 62... OMG... why did I play that.. 62 was to rip of the base... what a miss read !
move 96... I regret that tenuki...

black 131 hurts...
and then tryed everything that comes in my head but was unable to comeback...

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:38 am

Hi oca,

Did you consider :w14:

kosumi at C5 ?

. :w16:

at C5. Did you consider :w16:

at R12 ?

. :b21:

bad.

.

Can you see something interesting if you first hane Q18 ?

. :b25:

,

bad, similar to :b21:

.

Why is

bad ?

oca · Post by **oca** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:13 am

Hi Edlee,
Thx, for your comments

. Did you consider :w14:

kosumi at C5 ?

I didn't liked that :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . 3 . 2 . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

but maybe something like that would have been better

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . 4 . 8 . . 9 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . 3 . . 7 . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

.

at C5. Did you consider :w16:

at R12 ?

.

bad.
.

,

bad, similar to :b21:

.

Can you see something interesting if you first hane Q18 ?

Maybe that kind of menace if black try to protect the corner with :b23:

...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 8 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X 6 7 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O X X 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 9 . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

so I suppose he should more play like that :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X . 4 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Why is

bad ?

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:58 pm

oca wrote:I didn't like that

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . Y , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . , B . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . a . . . b . . B . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

If B plays :b2:

and

as above:

, , and do not make a very good combination;
B has weaknesses at (a) and (b) areas;
The group is not settled.

This result is playable for W.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:14 pm

oca wrote:
$$Wm30
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O d . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . W X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm30 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b c . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O d . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . W X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 B . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
after , I have to manage both my invading weak stone and the cutting point at "a"...

(a) is not a cut you have to worry about,
but the relationship of { :wc:

with (

) and

} is
not a good shape for W ( kind of broken shape ).

Notice if :white:

hane (b), B still cannot reply at (c),
because of the disaster with :white:

(d) —
your analysis of :white:

(b) was correct.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:11 pm

Actually I think c5 kosumi is not so good here as the white stone at c13 isn't at c12 so it doesn't put so much pressure on black's two space extension. Lower side looks the right direction, but probably third line is better as black's strong shimari there reduces white's potential. g3 would be my move.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:34 pm

A few comments.

Main focus: Your groups on the bottom side died because of negligence. You left weak stones without a base surrounded by strong stones. Your opponent did not kill them because of superior reading ability, but because they were eyeless and weak.

oca · Post by **oca** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:39 pm

Bill Spight wrote:...
Main focus: Your groups on the bottom side died because of negligence. You left weak stones without a base surrounded by strong stones. Your opponent did not kill them because of superior reading ability, but because they were eyeless and weak.

I 100% agree with that :salute:

, that was negligence...
Thanks a lot for that very, very helpfull review !

That's the kind of game I'm not really proud of... and my first thinking was just to throw it away without spending any more time on it, and just play another game as if this one never existed...

"After all, I just played bad, and I know what I did wrong" I though... but man..., is that statement wrong..., Now that I read your comments (and Edlee's comments too of course), I can tell that I was aware of at most 10% of them.

Posting a bad game is really something usefull...

Life In 19x19

kind of "best of" of all my worst play

kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re:

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play

Re: kind of "best of" of all my worst play