Newly Inspired "Go" player seeking advice

Uptick · Post by **Uptick** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:45 pm

Recently I was watching a documentary on Sun Tzu- Art of War, and in the video it made a comparison between Chess and Go that really resonated with me and peaked my interest about "go."

Shortly after that, I decided to watch this anime called Hikaru No Go, which I have heard many great things about for many years. Needless to say, my desire to learn "go" peaked even more upon completing the anime.

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice or provide some great resources to check out?

I've downloaded both KGS and IGS. I hear KGS might be better for beginners since it has a friendlier community and environment. On top of that, it has a bigger/better player pool for the mid level players, while IGS might be more suitable for higher level players? (the graphical interface of igs is so good though lol) Is KGS the place I should be starting at?

And, does anyone know any good web sites/forums/books/magazines that might be great for a beginner?
I'm currently learning some basics from http://www.playgo.to/iwtg/en/
But, if anyone know of any good resources regarding Go that might be suitable for a new player, I would really appreciate a few recommendations.

Lastly, what would be the best way for a beginner to learn and progress? Of course, I know that the best way to learn is through playing as many games as possible, but should i just plunge into a random game as soon as i learn the basic rules? or are there any basic patterns and strategies I should familiar myself with first in order to get more out of the experience? What are some of the things I should learn first, second, third,etc.

Lastly, as a beginner, should i start with a 9x9 board?

-kind regards,
Uptick

lobotommy · Post by **lobotommy** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:57 pm

few words of wisdom: http://www.mechner.com/david/go/improve.html

Dante31 · Post by **Dante31** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:57 pm

If you are an absolute beginner then you should start with 9x9 board. KGS is the best server for a beginner since it is the most popular one. As far as books: there are many but if I had to recommend one I would say 'One Thousand and One Life-and-Death Problems'. Also a good website is: http://www.goproblems.com

shapenaji · Post by **shapenaji** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:06 pm

Uptick wrote:
I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice or provide some great resources to check out?

I've downloaded both KGS and IGS. I hear KGS might be better for beginners since it has a friendlier community and environment. On top of that, it has a bigger/better player pool for the mid level players, while IGS might be more suitable for higher level players? (the graphical interface of igs is so good though lol) Is KGS the place I should be starting at?

Welcome!

It's really down to whichever interface you like more. KGS has a large social element, IGS is basically radio silence. They're both great, and I think you'll improve in both places. I strongly recommend finding a local club in addition to the online servers.

And, does anyone know any good web sites/forums/books/magazines that might be great for a beginner?
I'm currently learning some basics from http://www.playgo.to/iwtg/en/
But, if anyone know of any good resources regarding Go that might be suitable for a new player, I would really appreciate a few recommendations.

well, you found one

Some books that worked for me, but just the tip of the iceberg:
Fundamentals of Go by Kageyama
Get Strong at Tesuji by Bozulich

Sites:
http://goproblems.com
http://gochild2009.appspot.com/
http://gokifu.com

the first two are problem sites, the last posts recent professional games

Lastly, what would be the best way for a beginner to learn and progress? Of course, I know that the best way to learn is through playing as many games as possible, but should i just plunge into a random game as soon as i learn the basic rules? or are there any basic patterns and strategies I should familiar myself with first in order to get more out of the experience? and, as a beginner, should i start with a 9x9 board?

-kind regards,
Uptick

I think the best way is to get hammered at handicap games on a full board or play even games on a smaller board. That's why a local club can be so valuable. It can be hard to find those kind of games online, and you will need a lot of them.

Basic advice:
There's a balance in go between the local and the global. Beginners tend to focus too much on one or the other. Either they ignore moves which demand responses, or they become overly attached to one region of the board. These two positions are at odds, and I think the game starts really making sense when a player finds a balance. Higher level players struggle with that balance too, but I would describe those efforts as tweaking... as opposed to beginners, where it's something you just have to discover.

An addendum:
Try to keep in mind an image of what you want to happen. When you make a move near another stone of yours, try to imagine territory that they surround. Then be willing to protect that from incursion.

This imagined board state will be greedy, or too conservative. Eventually you'll learn that formations have tactical weaknesses, or that you're committing far too many moves to one region for very little marginal gain. But that's okay, you have to start somewhere.

Dante31 · Post by **Dante31** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:13 pm

Another useful online resource I can recommend is online group lessons. Here is the link: http://internetgoschool.com/index.vhtml

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:08 pm

Hi Uptick, Welcome.

You may also enjoy The Second Book of Go by Richard Bozulich.

Octoberowl · Post by **Octoberowl** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:18 pm

Hi Uptick!

Actually I just started go in January and I would second that, The Second Book of Go is very helpful, I am mostly through it now and it was good. The whole Get Strong series looks ideal I think.

good luck!

iseijin · Post by **iseijin** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:16 am

Hello Uptick.

The way I started was on Sensei's Library. A wide range of topics is explained in an easily understandable way.
http://senseis.xmp.net/

Aidoneus · Post by **Aidoneus** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:26 am

Before purchasing any books, you might check your local public (or campus) library. Very often you will find a few beginner books. For example, I think that most libraries carry Charles Mathews' introductory books and, if you are lucky, some of the books from the Get Strong at Go or Learn to Play Go series.

BTW, Shape Up! by Charles Mathews is available online through a few authorized sites (gobase.org with a subscription, and I guess http://www.badukworld.co.kr/biz/lesson2 ... shape.html). As a beginner, I think that it is helpful after learning a bit from more basic books.

StlenVlr · Post by **StlenVlr** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:58 pm

Just playing games is good, against varying levels of opponents. You might prefer some less serious go server for random games, such as PlayOK, because you don't really want to keep track of your rating or have that much consistency in strength of your opponents, but just get to see as many different kinds of playing players and playing styles. The problem with "proper" go servers is that they track your rating a bit too well, and you probably don't want to identify with any particular rating too soon after starting, but rather just play and lose games. It creates rating anxiety and all that if you get rating of say, 25k, then you try out new ideas and the rating drops to 27k or something.

At least, that's what I did. When I started, I played on IGS, KGS and Yahoo, and my preferred server for quite long was Yahoo 9x9 or 13x13 with their non-existent rank tracking. Second most I played on IGS where I never left 30k rating. Currently IGS has no ratings below 17k, so the result is kinda the same. But, if you can play freely and try out things without developing rating anxiety, even if the server is accurately measuring your skill, then any server is fine. I personally had huge trouble with that, and if you feel you also might, find a nice safe place to play where the server can't track your rating properly. PlayOK would be my recommendation, their rating system seems pretty random to me.

At some point you may want to read books like Attack and Defense and Tesuji, they help you pass the 10k barrier, but that's in the far future. You may also, after reaching something like 15k rating(it should take between 2 weeks and 2 months if you play every day), ask someone for a quick shape lesson.

Mike Novack · Post by **Mike Novack** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:02 pm

There is probably no best "one size fits all" method to learn go.

A great deal is going to depend on your learning style, especially how well you can utilize learning from books, generalize from exercises and examples, or how much you might be one of those people for whom if it's not hands and repetition on you learn nothing.

I am personally somebody who learns very well from books. By the time I first got to play anybody I was enough better than them that they couldn't even estimate my strength except to say "much stronger". Many years later, up here I found a go club and they could rate me us single digit. Playing against opponents I am now several stones stronger than that. But this is unusual, not a way for most folks to learn.

IF (big if) you use a computer opponent do not try to learn by weakening the program until you can play even games against it. That would teach you bad habits. Instead, keep the program 3-5 stones stronger and take the appropriate handicap (or slightly less). Yes the program will still be exhibiting "bad habits" but they won't be the bad habits of somebody your own level.

Aidoneus · Post by **Aidoneus** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:45 pm

Another free resource to consider is youtube. For example, Nick Sibicky (3 dan?) has uploaded more than 60 go lessons on various aspects of play that he has given to groups at his go school (club?). I haven't watched all of them, but they seem pretty good to me (a simple beginner).

peti29 · Post by **peti29** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:17 am

I absolutely love the atmosphere of Nick Sibicky's go lectures. I wish I had a go club like that nearby.

There's indeed a lot of resource on Youtube and other video portals.
E.g.: dwyrin / Bat 's series, Catalin Taranu's 123 lessons and game reviews, Kang Seung-hee's Go congress workshop... and many more. It's worth searching for such videos on the net.

Btw. are there any more videos, books, etc from Kang Seung-hee available free or not?

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:22 am

My understanding is that Nick's lectures take place at the Seattle Go Center.

Aidoneus · Post by **Aidoneus** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:14 pm

skydyr wrote:My understanding is that Nick's lectures take place at the Seattle Go Center.

Yeah. After looking the place up, I see that Nick Sibicky (4 dan) gives a free class on Monday evenings for 20-5 kyu (according to the site) Go players. He isn't listed as a director of the Seattle Go Center; I can only wish that he would move to Northwest Indiana and start a club that I could attend! I would even volunteer to video his lessons... :lol:

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