Next Generation Go Trainer

[Bonobo]

Bonobo--

Sorry about that! "GFI!" will start out as Windows only also. For the moment, Windows owns the world...or at least the US market. What are you running? The last I heard, all reasonably modern Mac's can run Windows, albeit slowly. Most of my Unix buddies also run a Windows partition on their machines.

I run a Mac, and I also have a virtual machine with Windows Vista (which I’ll have to use for my upcoming job), but I’d really really prefer anything running natively OS X.

[oren]

If it's go software, I'd say write it in Java. It would be the easiest thing to have work on multiple platforms.

[daal]

I run a Mac, and I also have a virtual machine with Windows Vista (which I’ll have to use for my upcoming job), but I’d really really prefer anything running natively OS X.

This is not a bells and whistles program - it was written over ten years ago and I seriously doubt there would be any performance issues on any system capable of running it.

[Bonobo]

I run a Mac, and I also have a virtual machine with Windows Vista (which I’ll have to use for my upcoming job), but I’d really really prefer anything running natively OS X.

This is not a bells and whistles program - it was written over ten years ago and I seriously doubt there would be any performance issues on any system capable of running it.

Well, I have also used Windows since 3.11 (and MS-DOS and DR-DOS before that and CP/M before that) but it (still) gives me itches Nevertheless I’ll consider. Too bad there’s no demo of this …

[Chaosrider]

Oren--

I'm a long way from worrying what language to use. It may well depend on the preference of the person I get to write the code! Also, there's a lot of Go software already out there, and while some of it's copyrighted, some of it isn't. If there's a large existing code base in one particular language that the authors are willing to let us use, that will bias the language selection in that direcction. For example, writing a program to display the board isn't rocket science. If somone who's written that well is willing to let us use it, why not? Given the nature of this development process it's pretty certain the code will be highly modularized.

Bonobo--

Sounds like a personal problem to me!



I just bought Bruce's program (again...he gave me a break for the previous purchase!), so I'll report back after I get a chance to play with it. What I'm finding as a problem in every program I've looked at so far...and this may have been the issue I had with GDJ in the past...is the lack of automated flow control. The user experience should be a seemless, automated progression from instruction, to exercises, to next phase of instruction.

I'll post a first draft version of the curriculum sometime in the not too distant future. More than a week, less than a month. It will be wrong, and I look forward to the corrections.

[CnP]

If you're writing the next generation of Go trainers, shouldn't it be web based and platform independent? Web based would also mean a tutor could easily review the students material and performance etc. It might also make it easier to twitter, facebook and generally gamificate it if that's the sort of thing you like to do. Upgrades would be easy etc you could interface with a Go server etc, some sort of automatic analysis of a students games (highlight groups liberties etc).

I do wonder though how you would balance what sounds like theory based training with training the brain's ability to read.

[oren]

I'll post a first draft version of the curriculum sometime in the not too distant future. More than a week, less than a month. It will be wrong, and I look forward to the corrections.

As a beginner yourself, how will you write a curriculum?

[Chaosrider]

CnP--

Good points, and probably right. I just haven't gotten to thinking at that level of technical detail yet! I've worked enough in IT security that I do have an aversion to TOTAL dependence on being connected, however. The "Live Update" version probably should be architected along the lines that you describe, but there will be a downloadable version as well. If I can't back up a piece of software to my personal 2TB back-up drive, then I don't really have the software.

oren--

Cut and paste! I'll see what other people have already written and, while respecting copyright, I'll put together a draft based on what I find that's already out there. The first version, v0.1, will well and truly suck. Many people will tell me so. Some smaller number of helpful people will tell me why, and offer suggested improvements, which I'll incorporate. Lather, rinse, repeat. In the process, I'll learn as well. And, it's actually surprising how little you need to know of the technical detail of a subject to be able to pull together and edit a good summary of said subject. All it takes is knowing it will be wrong for the first several versions, and cheerfully accepting the fact that the people who are making the comments know more about it than you do! But I'm an expert on the PROCESS of writing that kind of document by committee. That will suffice for this purpose.

All--

I successfully downloaded GDJ from Bruce, and it seems to be working fine. I'll play with it for a bit, and then report back.

[Chaosrider]

I am now confronted with a mystery.

I've been working with Bruce Wilcox's Go Dojo for a bit now, and I can't imagine what it is that turned me off about it before. Either it's significantly improved, or I'm in a better frame of mind to learn, or something, but so far, I just love it.

GDJ doesn't do everything I *WANT*, but it does do more than anything else I've *SEEN*...very much more. If you're only goiong to buy one computer Go program, I would buy this one.

I started going through it as though I was a brand new player, and went through all of the preliminary stuff before starting the "Learn Go" path. I have been making review notes about various things, which I'll post here when I get farther along. I'll be interested to see how well it teaches at the more difficult levels (ie, above me!), but so far, it has greatly exceeded my expectations. A wonderful program! Just needs a facelift. I wouldn't change a word of the instructional text.

[Chaosrider]

Bruce Wilcox's Go Dojo has everything I need for my first objective of achieving 1 dan. I'm just going to work on that for a while, and worry about the "marketing" issues later.

I'm now up to a fairly reliable 7 kyu.

Thanks, Bruce!

[EdLee]

Chaosrider, I also purchased GDJ years ago and also enjoyed it very much.
Please keep us informed of your progress. Good luck.

[Chaosrider]

Will do! Sometimes the machine says I'm 6 kyu now, but if I slack off my attention, it whacks me back down. I've noticed that as a general issue that I need to work on; sometimes I'll make moves that are bad, when I really know better, because I don't think them through. One of the hazards of grabbing a few minutes at a time when you can, I guess.

My second objective in all this, which I haven't talked about yet, is that I would like to substantially increase the interest in Go within the US. We have a real problem here with not enough people entering STEM fields (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math), and it's getting worse. I think a radically larger interest in Go could help with that problem. Go also teaches people to think logically through possiblities, and to realize that actions have consequences. The current failure to do so constributes to a lot of the social problems we have here.

But, the second is a much harder objective. As far as the core "Go Teaching Engine"...curriculum, educational text, diagrams...I'm now convinced we don't need anything better than what Bruce has already done. It's all there. What's missing for this second objective is a "wrapper" and enhanced flow that meets the needs of marketing in the US: It needs to be visually striking, easy to start, and produce noticeable rewards both quickly, and measurably as you progress. If that seems sort of shallow, that's because it sort of is, but that's the way it is in the US.

So, for Phase II, I really need to find game designers, program flow controllers, educational theorists, and marketeers. Bruce has already done the intellectual heavy lifting of creating the actual Go teacher.

But, that's a bigger problem, which may wait for a while.

Thanks to all for your interest!

[Chaosrider]

I have just finished the "Elementary Contact" lesson block in GDJ!