Wrong direction of play

alejo · Post by **alejo** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:59 am

Recently, most of my games are all a huge mess with lots of fighting everywhere. Depending on the level of my rival, I win or lose by more than 20 points... Last game against a 4k I lost for 38,5 points :oops:

My feelings: my fuseki is awful and I want to get back in the game by making some stupid invasions/reductions. In the end, this invasions lead to ridiculously difficult fights.
This is a game I just played and I won against a 5k

This is the one I lost:

Any game commentary will be welcomed. Though I know I make reading mistakes more often than not, I'd like to know what is wrong with the general direction of the game.

Thank you

moyoaji · Post by **moyoaji** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:23 pm

In game 2 white P3 is a common overplay. If black descends he can either connect to his stones or, if white tries to block, can kill either the 1 stone or the 3 in the white wall.

http://youtu.be/hBBx4v5E-GQ?t=2m5s

alejo · Post by **alejo** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:31 pm

moyoaji wrote:In game 2 white P3 is a common overplay. If black descends he can either connect to his stones or, if white tries to block, can kill either the 1 stone or the 3 in the white wall.

http://youtu.be/hBBx4v5E-GQ?t=2m5s

True... I've already been punished for this same mistake a couple of times, but I didn't think of it during the game... I have to study more joseki and all-over fuseki.
Thank you for pointing it out

nacroxnicke · Post by **nacroxnicke** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:45 pm

In the first game, in the upper left corner, we play B14 after 46 because if not then the descent in B14 by white is sente (if you don't answer he kills the corner), while if you play b14 in 45 it's not sente to live in the corner if he descents after, for example in that game as you didn't play it, when he descended in 62 and 64 he gain strenght and could counter attack your stone (thought you handled it well and gain enough influence to build a moyo in the center)

PD: the thing at move 21 was an error of editing

PD2: BTW, this is a good all-around reference for josekipedia: http://www.josekipedia.com/

alejo · Post by **alejo** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:47 am

2 big joseki mistakes out of 2 commentaries... Well, I guess this means something, right? :salute:

Josekipedia added to favorites

Thank you

Dragon Pie · Post by **Dragon Pie** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:29 am

You can kill on move 205

alejo · Post by **alejo** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:01 pm

I realised it one second after playing the other move... A1 and white dies.

But still, I think there is something wrong with my playing style. If someone disagrees, I'll be glad to hear

nacroxnicke · Post by **nacroxnicke** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:16 pm

I might put something related to fuseki, but i'm just a 6-5kyu, in fact, I was thinking on doing a little review and then put some games to get feedback too =P

anyway, i will post it eventually

EDIT: There it's, pick some of my suggestions with a pick of salt, overall i think you would benefit by know some of the sabaki tesujis and learning by how to develop in fuseki, my review is a little confusing in some parts but it's because it's my first review in sgf =P

alejo · Post by **alejo** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:58 am

Black did his tsumego daily and won the game

After a horrible 32 hours-in-a-row working... this sentence made my day :lol:

Thank you very much

By the way, thank you for the review, too. I'll try to improve my fuseki somehow. Seems like solving tsumegos during the last two weeks finally paid off.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:07 am

A few points on Game 1...

Weirdly enough there is even a game that starts like this. :blackeye:

Much more common is to attach at "a" with :b7:

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm6 Rin Kanketsu (White) - Takemiya Masaki; 31st Kisei prelims; 2005-11-24 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 7 . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 0 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . a O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It is already said elsewhere but answering :w1:

with

is a poor choice. Why? White's play on the second line does not threaten your high 2-space extension and is therefore very submissive. If White's original stone were on the 4-4, at least White's move would have helped close the corner. Here though the White 3-4 stone does that all by itself. Better for Black to just play on the right side, a la Takemiya, or approach the upper left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Extending to :b1:

below is an extraordinarily poor choice here. It gives up sente when: 1. you don't need to protect your stones (if White plays around 1, you can answer at "a"), and 2. you can't attack White in the lower left (certainly not when White has played the marked stone). Black should absolutely approach the upper left at "b". Why that direction? That would make best use of the marked Black stone. Its one virtue is that it makes Black strong on the left side. So Black wants to push White toward that strength by approaching at "b". When White is given time to play :w2:

, Black falls behind.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . W . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . 1 . . X . . X a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The pincer at :b1:

is a good choice. :tmbup:

The marked White stone makes the right side uninteresting. However, when White hanes at :w4:

, the play at :b5:

is a poor choice for exactly the same reason! :tmbdown:

Black creates a group with no real prospects that immediately gets into trouble.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 8 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . 3 2 7 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Better to block at :b1:

below. Play continues naturally and White either slides to :w4:

or reverts to a normal joseki by exchanging "a" for "b" before jumping to "c". Either way, Black takes the opportunity to approach the upper left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . O 3 X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Overall, Black was reacting to White rather than striving to keep/take back the initiative. This gave White an easy time of it in the opening. Happily Black was more aggressive later and scored a win. :tmbup:

alejo · Post by **alejo** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:32 am

Thank you very much. Fuseki may be my worst weakness. I hope I can apply some of the knowledge you just showed. :bow:

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