What about walls

[StlenVlr]

I often hear about "Don't use walls to make territory", and I think this proverb is slightly wrong. I mean, it is a good broad advice, but the cases when it's wrong are a bit difficult to tell from when the proverb is right.

The fundamental reason people advise against making territory with walls is that it's pretty easy to end up wasting too many stones on too few points of territory. However, wall does need eyes just like any other group, so you kinda end up in a situation where you don't want to use walls to make territory, but you want to use walls to secure two points(the eyes you need to live). So you kinda struggle to utilize your wall as much as possible while still retaining the eye potential.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4331

Watch the top left before move 50. That's kinda the thing, the large territory along the top side was merely a threat, but I made the eyes in the corner. Seems a little backwards, but this way W needs to spend many moves trying to reduce my potential, while I get to make eyes while reducing. That enables me to keep tempo of the game to myself.

If your wall turns into a dragon, that's usually very problematic. You don't want that to happen, but you also don't really want to make more territory with your wall than is needed for eyes, because you would like for the territory to happen on the outside. For this reason it's kind of a balancing act, you want opponent to spend many moves near your wall and play on the outside, but you also don't want to be attacked, so in preparation for that, your wall may end up needing very modest-looking extensions or such to make the wall actually scary(because after getting eyes, you don't need to be afraid). Large extensions are rather pointless because they are easier to attack and opponent playing on the other side of them is further away from your wall, that is, safer, for which reason the proverb "don't make territory with influence" is a good tip, but it's also a bit incomplete.

[oca]

@StlenVlr
Thanks for the game and advices ! I really enjoyed watching it, even if it's level is way ahead of what I can do...
moves like still scary me... so few space to live after seems so easy when I'm just looking, and so hard when it's my turn to play...

[schawipp]

I just saw that... something like this I suppose.

$$W
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 3 7 8 . . . .
$$ | . O X 1 2 9 0 . . .
$$ | . . O X 5 . . . . ,
$$ | . . O X 6 X . . . .
$$ | . . O O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 3 7 8 . . . .
$$ | . O X 1 2 9 0 . . .
$$ | . . O X 5 . . . . ,
$$ | . . O X 6 X . . . .
$$ | . . O O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------[/go]

After your white can atari your stone from two sides in order to try to escape either to the top or the right, which may cause some confusion. Therefore I would use to squeeze white and capture it cleanly on (a) afterwards:

$$Wc on
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X 0 4 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 3 7 8 . . . .
$$ | . O X 1 2 9 a . . .
$$ | . . O X 5 . . . . ,
$$ | . . O X 6 X . . . .
$$ | . . O O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc on
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X 0 4 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 3 7 8 . . . .
$$ | . O X 1 2 9 a . . .
$$ | . . O X 5 . . . . ,
$$ | . . O X 6 X . . . .
$$ | . . O O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------[/go]

On the other hand, I would simply set up a loose ladder with which looks less complicated:

$$W
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . 2 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 1 5 6 . . . .
$$ | . . O X 3 . . . . ,
$$ | . . O X 4 X . . . .
$$ | . . O O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . 2 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 1 5 6 . . . .
$$ | . . O X 3 . . . . ,
$$ | . . O X 4 X . . . .
$$ | . . O O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------[/go]

White gets nothing unless he has some helping stones nearby...

Edit: Some correction on my first comment

[oca]

... Therefore I would use to squeeze white and capture it cleanly on (a) afterwards:

That's right, I like your better then mine !

On the other hand, I would simply set up a loose ladder with which looks less complicated:

This is one of the things I need to improve, staying with simple sequences that I can keep it under control...
I often tend to fall in complex senarios when there are simpler (and often better) alternatives ...