Seven stones

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:16 am

Good self analysis. I see you worry mostly about connection and this is indeed very important.

More analysis of that game below. Don't pause for too long at it. Next game is the most important one, applying lessons learnt.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:00 pm

A couple of comments, focused on alternatives to empty triangles.

Thimblefox · Post by **Thimblefox** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:00 am

I'll take with me how to handle that cut at 21, and how to connect at 41. I did play a game after this one focusing solely on avoiding empty triangles, didn't quite work out.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:57 am

Just a quick comment on the first game: If you look at the board, very early on white basically conceded the entire right half of the board to black, and then proceeded to fight over the left half. This is not how to play go: you need at least half the points to win! White's initial invasion was still somewhat reasonable, as you can make a jump into the center and start running while splitting black, but it is hard. The key takeaway, though, is that when black claims half the board like that, he must be challenged, or you may as well resign.

Comments on the second game:

Thimblefox · Post by **Thimblefox** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:58 am

Yeah, but I decided to save what I had and come stronger back in the next game. Else I'd just make tons of cuts and lose by even more, that's what I was thinking at least. At any rate, I just played a game where I took half the board, but because my reading skill is still crap I let my opponent invade although it shouldn't have worked at all.

But that's good. Next game I do the same without letting my opponent invade, and the game is won. Or.. I learn a valuable lesson. :lol:

I've started doing tsumego at goproblems.com, and I'm still waiting for a book with life and death problems.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:29 pm

Hi Thimblefox,

Game 1:

:b7:

No, this is not where you lost the game. No problem.

:w10:

Your note about A is correct -- the right side gap is 1 space wider -- simple fundamental to remember. But, the K16 :black:

stone is on the 4th line, versus the R9 :black:

stone on 3rd -- so it's tricky.
Anyway, this is not where you lost the game, so no problem either way.

:w12:

correct basic shape.

:w14:

You don't take care of your (now) heavy o16 group. You create another weak group. This is a problem. You'll be very busy.

:w18:

,

Your

is a possibility, but your :w20:

pull-back is too heavy, and you hurt your o16 group even more. Not good.
Instead of :w20:

pull-back, you had to read other options, such as L16 cross-cut and start a local fight.
This is a problem with your reading, as you mentioned, and your fight skills.
This is where you start to get into trouble.

:w22:

Again, you create a weak group Q5 and abandon it. Not good.

:w24:

...

If this is your "strategy", you might as well resign.
There's a Chinese saying to describe this way of play: to die a peaceful death.
You can clearly see, even before :w24:

through

,
that Black controls a much bigger part of the board than you.
You must jump in and fight -- you may get completely wiped out, yes,
but it's much better to lose by fighting hard than just give up completely.

:w46:

Yes, e2 hane is the only move. This is the kind of mistakes that's important. This is a 20-point+ mistake. Just one move.
This is important. ( Not :w10:

. )

Bad habit. Just connect. Important basic to learn.

:b69:

If you had simply connected on :w68:

, then this :b69:

would be gote. Now, it's sente. This is one reason :w68:

is bad.

Bad. Broken shape. Bad shape. The combination of :w74:

and

is bad.
Important basic to learn.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:15 pm

Thimblefox wrote:my reading skill is still crap

Yes, and that's a big fundamental problem for these levels, for our levels.

Our levels are determined "mostly" by our reading.
(I only have anecdotal evidence for this; no hard data.)

For example, in game 1, :w14:

,

-- important basics to study. ( Problem is not :w6:

or

. )

...

Global assessment -- higher level problem.

To improve our level, at this phase, means to improve our reading,
which in turn means acquiring a vast amount of knowledge about
basic shapes ( :w46:

,

, etc. ), basic fighting skills ( :w20:

),
basic tesujis, basic life-and-death ( :b37:

,

), etc.

Don't stress over nebulous things ( :w6:

,

) -- Less important.
Focus on the details ( :w46:

,

) -- Critical.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:17 am

Hi,

From game 2 you have drawn correct conclusions.
For game 1 your conclusions are somewhat misguided. I concur with skydyr: "The key takeaway, though, is that when black claims half the board like that, he must be challenged, or you may as well resign."

And obviously EdLee has made a good technical analysis too.

Thimblefox · Post by **Thimblefox** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:11 pm

Hi EdLee,

It just seems like I'd want to avoid playing this move at all. Well, maybe I could try to build a wall and isolate K16, would that be an idea?

:w24:

...

: I see these moves as very psychological, and symptomatic of something that used to happen when I played Go a couple of years ago. Maybe I have those old sgf-files still, but at any rate I noticed that after I played something similar to this, I would play a lot better in the following games, and because of that I saw it as a sort of good sign when I reviewed the game. But let's see how I do in my upcoming games!

:w68:

...

: I'll try to keep this in mind.

:w76:

: You mean something like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . 1 O 2 . . $$ | . . . . . . 3 . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:29 pm

Thimblefox wrote: It just seems like I'd want to avoid playing this move at all. Well, maybe I could try to build a wall and isolate K16, would that be an idea?

Hi Thimblefox,

In game 1, your :w12:

extend to o16 is one correct local shape.
What do you mean ?

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:40 pm

Thimblefox wrote:: You mean something like this?
$$B
$$ . . . . .
$$ . 1 O 2 .
$$ . . . 3 .
$$ . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ . . . . . $$ . 1 O 2 . $$ . . . 3 . $$ . . . . .[/go]

Yes. Locally, :b3:

is very bad for Black,
because :w4:

makes a broken shape for Black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ . . . . . $$ . 1 O 2 . $$ . . 4 3 . $$ . . . . .[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:14 pm

Thimblefox wrote:: You mean something like this?
$$B
$$ . . . . .
$$ . 1 O 2 .
$$ . . . 3 .
$$ . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ . . . . . $$ . 1 O 2 . $$ . . . 3 . $$ . . . . .[/go]

We can even omit :w2:

to show you the bad shape.
Basic broken shape for Black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B tenuki $$ . . . . . $$ . 1 O . . $$ . . 4 3 . $$ . . . . .[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:16 pm

Hi Thimblefox, Here's another example to show you the broken shape:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

If W plays :w6:

--

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 6 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

It's very natural for Black to block with :b7:

--

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 6 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

But if Black ignores :w6:

, then W pushes through with :w8:

, and makes the same broken shape for Black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B tenuki $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 6 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . 8 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Basic broken shape for Black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ . . . . . $$ . X O . . $$ . . O X . $$ . . . . .[/go]

Life In 19x19

Seven stones

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Re: Return of the newbie

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Re: Return of the newbie

Re: Return of the newbie

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