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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #41 Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:06 pm 
Oza
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With 2750+ views to date, I would not call your thread unpopular. :)

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Post #42 Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:44 pm 
Lives in gote

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Some endgame notes:

In your endgame start position, I think the correct move for B in the upper left is A, rather than the atari to the left. It looks like this reduces the W corner to only two points, while keeping sente. (And in a blitz game, it would be easy for W to make a mistake and die.)

Later on, the descent to R1 looks stylish, but leaves B with a 2-point gote play. Simply atari at S1 is better. Then W should also get R4 in sente, before it is profitable for B as reverse sente.


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Post #43 Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:24 pm 
Gosei
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Today's game fully analyzed.


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Post #44 Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:47 pm 
Gosei
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I have two questions in this game, at 38 and 96 but any comment is welcome


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Post #45 Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 8:17 am 
Gosei
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Encouraged by the heartwarming response to my posted games, I'm off to a new challenge. This week I'm on a business trip and I plan to fill the empty hotel hours with some games. I'll try to get to 10 games (1m+5x30s) with the usual focus:

1. Time management
- play opening without losing an overtime period (OT)
- consume 3 overtime periods on important L&D issues or a decisive ko
- consume 1 but last OT on counting the score at start of endgame and find 5 biggest endgame

2. Reading
- in the opening, keep "biggest area" in mind
- read 3 moves wide at every move
- read 3 moves deep for every alternative
- go as deep as possible in the challenging L&D positions
- during endgame, recalculate 5 biggest endgame whenever one is played

3. Attitude
- don't care about the result or the rank, only about the best move to win the game
- reduce risk when ahead
- seek risk when behind
- don't resign out of disappointment
- respect the opponent: he's there for a good reason

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #46 Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 9:16 am 
Oza
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Knotwilg wrote:
Encouraged by the heartwarming response to my posted games...

I am not sure whether you are gently chiding us about the lack of response on your most recent game but I will take this opportunity to mention my pet peeve. I like to use webgoboard in firefox on my windows pc and GoEye on my ipad. In both cases, it is usually impossible to open (by clicking the "download sfg" button) games posted by cutting and pasting the text of an sgf file between the sgf tags here. Any game with significant comments and/or variations causes the following in firefox (and simply no result on the ipad). So I prefer game files posted as attachments if you are looking for feedback. :)
Attachment:
Knotwilg sgf click.png
Knotwilg sgf click.png [ 99.42 KiB | Viewed 5471 times ]

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Post #47 Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 12:15 pm 
Gosei
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Thanks for the tip Dave - can't complain about you even in my most indulgent hours!

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Post #48 Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 5:41 pm 
Honinbo

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Somehow, on your pages I often get an error message about an unresponsive script. Here is the script, as written in them message.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/eid…go/player/js/all.compressed.js:1180

I'm not even looking at one of the SGF files. I don't know why this happens, but I don't remember it happening with other players' pages. :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #49 Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 8:33 pm 
Oza
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Flattery goes a long way so here are some comments. Before we ever get to 38 though... :)

On 16 you comment that you don't want to go for influence because of the star points. However, let's remember how JF is always harping on that thickness does not equal influence and vice versa. I always think that when the opponent plays early on tengen, one of our objectives is to try to make that an inefficient play. Fighting with multiple groups is not the way we try to do that! :blackeye: So I liked your solid connection (or the diagonal play at P6) better. BTW, don't forget to atari at N2 in your variation before connecting with L4. Don't give him the hane at M2 for free!

But now it gets exciting, and not in a good way it seems to me. Do you have time to play 24? If Black had played 25 at L2, can White win the fight?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X 6 3 O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 5 . 1 7 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The same question goes for Black 25 and 27. It seems to me that White is playing with fire here and should play on the lower side instead.

Is White 26 bad shape? If Black plays 27 at R5, White has to give up 26 or allow Black to punch through at Q6 with 29.

Finally it is White's turn though. Black 33 seems a tremendous overplay to me. Shouldn't White simply use 34 to play out at J3? what does Black do now?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 3 4 . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 1 . O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think the real question arises if Black plays 33 as shown below. Should White cut at 'a' and revert to the game? Since white needs to add a move in the corner if he can't catch some Black stones on the outside, I think White is more at risk than Black in the game. I think that White should prefer to simply live inside, wait for Black to connect 'a' somehow and then protect the lower left corner. The pressure will then be on Black to justify his center stones.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . a X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 3 5 . . O X . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 1 . O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
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"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21


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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #50 Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:57 am 
Gosei
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I played two games in two days - 10 will be too ambitious.
The first game went very well, both in terms of process and result

1. Time management
+ play opening without losing an overtime period (OT)
- consume 3 overtime periods on important L&D issues or a decisive ko (I only spent 1)
+ consume 1 but last OT on counting the score at start of endgame and find 5 biggest endgame

2. Reading
+ in the opening, keep "biggest area" in mind
+ read 3 moves wide at every move
- read 3 moves deep for every alternative (I'm not sure I did)
+ go as deep as possible in the challenging L&D positions (there didn't seem to be any)
+ during endgame, recalculate 5 biggest endgame whenever one is played (I did that on many occasions)

3. Attitude
- don't care about the result or the rank, only about the best move to win the game (not sure)
+ reduce risk when ahead (definitely did that)
- seek risk when behind (no reason)
- don't resign out of disappointment (no reason)
+ respect the opponent: he's there for a good reason (I don't think I became arrogant at any point)

See the game in attachment :study:


Attachments:
phoo-Artevelde.sgf [8.35 KiB]
Downloaded 94 times
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 Post subject: Re: Knotwilg's practice
Post #51 Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 12:33 pm 
Lives in gote

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Nice game. I like the marking of moves you considered. Some comments on those move selections:

:b11: I agree with your list, and I would have also considered R14. But probably the LL corner is most important now. Choosing between A(D5) and B(C4), I would have picked A, to avoid helping W develop the lower side. But your move is bigger in territory, so it may also be good. Maybe a matter of style or taste? Perhaps some stronger player will comment on this one.

:b39: I would have included H6 on the short list, to make W over-concentrated. It would be hard for W to ignore this and let B have another move here, so it is likely sente. My list would have replaced R14 with R13.

:b63: Why not hane, to keep up the pressure? W has liberty problems and the corner is not yet alive, so the hane is very strong. If W cuts, just defend at P15 with good shape. This fight looks too difficult for W. In the game sequence, W gets a comfortable position after the jump to O10.

:b83: I get lost in this sort of position -- too many complicated choices. I would probably try to count the game at this point, to get some guidance. Since it looks close, I would not consider slow moves like A. Your move B is nice, but I am not sure I would have thought of it. Pushing at J6 and cutting is worth a read, but seems not to work. I suppose I might end up playing a huge yose move like P2.

:b85: A and B would never occur to me, but they are vital points worth a read. C and E look too slack. D and F are both interesting, forcing W to live, but how much territory do they make? Capturing at Q18 might be quite good. Of course if W cannot make another eye around O10, the game is over. But even if W makes an eye here, B does not really lose much territory. Q18 is worth something like 8 points locally.

:b87: is yose already. My short list would be D and E only, but your forcing moves were good.

:b91: I would have gone back to P2, but it seems to have dropped off your list. Probably all large moves win at this point, so no need to spend too much time considering something risky like A.


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Post #52 Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:37 pm 
Gosei
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Thanks a lot Mitsun. It's helpful if you think along like this. In retrospect I must admit that P2 was left unplayed surprisingly long.

You are probably right about capturing P18: it's big, it's sente and it's much clearer than the rather vague move I played. It was a bit of a lazy move increasing overall thickness.

I think the game became favorable for Black when White "reduced" at K14, allowing Black to threaten it while moving into the big potential of the left side. Then when Black got P2, it was all over.

Thanks again.

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Post #53 Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 4:51 am 
Gosei
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Another game, where in the end a mistake by the opponent turned a small loss into a big win.

In retrospect, both overestimated the health of the white group in the lower left.

I fared well in terms of my objectives but didn't play the best moves, tactically. Often too soft and uninspired.


Attachments:
Artevelde-zhy1378.sgf [9.77 KiB]
Downloaded 90 times

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Post #54 Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 5:35 am 
Tengen

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Bill Spight wrote:
Knotwilg wrote:
Not many people take an interest in my ongoing endgame training, but anyway.


I have not commented much, but I applaud your effort and endeavor. :)
:clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: :bow: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Indeed. I haven't read most of the study journals, but just started on yours this morning. I love the analyses.

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Post #55 Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 6:58 am 
Gosei
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After 7 straight victories and regaining my top rank of 2d on KGS, I played an old time compagnon in the Belgian Go Federation and lost. I think I did not respect his fighting abilities enough and was overly optimistic.

Here's the game with some comments. And back to 1d - that's what you get when you care about rank ...


Attachments:
Artevelde-papalouw.sgf [3.77 KiB]
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Post #56 Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:00 am 
Judan

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OGS: Uberdude 7d


A few comments:
- mv 6 approach from the outside is pretty unusual, just 3 hits in ps.waltheri to 116 and 79 for the wedge and inside approach respectively. I suspect it's a little bad. That is was hard to find a good answer to the lower left approach could well be blamed on this direction choice as the intervening moves were all standard and reasonable looking.
- mv 18. I might go for the 2 space high pincer here.
- mv 20. Odd. Normal with this footsweep is kick and come out to e5, but then again the footsweep is only normal when the resulting 2 stone wall can't make a full extension to k3 because of a white stone around there, but here he can. But even so maybe it's better than this contact which helps him settle. Maybe after black k3 you can l3 k4 l5, and if black defends the left s3 should become your sente.
- mv32. Urgh, hurts your 2 stones. I'd rather k4 directly. If he plays o5 to break out he damages m5 cut stone, and you can even ignore o4 connection to perhaps kill the g4 group.
- Need more subtlety in the fight, for example in the variation for 40 you can consider 42 k3 at j2 to kill him if you are stronger outside. You should be able to engineer a successful miai for that.


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Post #57 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:17 pm 
Gosei
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Thanks Uberdude - I missed your comment when you made it, so only see it now.

I won a couple of fighting games against 1k which got me back to 2d. I don't seem able to keep that rank though, let alone progress to 3d.

Now I'd like to study a bit instead of playing games. I've ordered Relentless so that will give me sth to do and I'll also focus on Hitachi again.

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Post #58 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:09 pm 
Gosei
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I have studied the first two games in Relentless - a fantastic book. A few things I've learned:

1. Even when I understood the moves (with the help of the book) I did not always understand the order of play. After thinking long about it, I now hypthesize that in important fights they play local sente first, global sente next and finally local gote.
2. Local sente that doesn't really gain anything, at least not at the size of play at that stage of the game (which Bill calls "temperature" I think) is left as aji. As soon as a hot situation has cooled down (i.e. it has become clear for them grosso modo) they leave it. Later, when it has become clearer which is the better move, or when the overall temperature cools down, they unleash the situation again.
3. In the endgame, it's sente over gote, but not all sente. Small sente are left as potential ko threats. In a way this is just a particular implementation of the above. What is small sente? Sente which is smaller than about half of the largest available gote. This is not a rule per se, but the old teachings of Ogawa/Davies still prove to be true for all practical purposes. When the "reverse sente" move, which is simply a gote move for the opponent, approaches the value of the largest gote, they play the sente.

In short, it's all about sente. I hear myself muttering "sente, sente, sente" when looking for a hard to find move in a pro game I replay. And when I do, I hear the echo of Guo Juan, the Chinese pro who has been a teacher for many of us Europeans. She used to say this: "sente, sente, sente" (only it was more like "Sunday, Sunday, Sunday")

This and a more territorial style I've adopted since viewing the teachings of dwyrin on youtube, has harvested a lot of wins lately. On Tygem I'm 11-1 - admittedly me venturing a 1 dan rank on Tygem is probably a case of sandbagging, but still the play is different than before and very convincing.

OK, and now for the question: can anyone show me how to download your own games from Tygem?

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Post #59 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:40 pm 
Honinbo
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Knotwilg wrote:
how to download your own games from Tygem?
Hi Knotwilg,

On Windows 8, an example:
Code:
This PC\Local Disk(C:)\Program Files(x86)\TygemGlobal\Games\2016-07\
I have no experience with Tygem on OS X, iOS, or Android.

But my experience with Tygem on Windows: I always had to figure out where Tygem installed itself, and the location of the folder with all the saved games.
Tygem saves in .gib format, so I have to use another program, say MultiGo, to open it, then save it as SGF.

Hope this helps. :)
PS. I find Tygem and WBaduk's UI ridiculous.


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Post #60 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:43 pm 
Lives in gote

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Uberdude wrote:
- mv 18. I might go for the 2 space high pincer here.


Yes, interesting thought and a bit outside my vision.

It is hard to see quite what White can "achieve" here, given that Black can reduce from the right: an open skirt, basically. I can see some players reinforcing at L5, Takemiya-style, and telling Black "bring it on" with the double approach. Your suggestion is more about overall balance.

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