What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:12 am

In your last game, I find your move

inconsistent: First, you pincer the black approaching stone with

. The usual purpose of a pincer is (IMHO) to make it more tricky for the opponent to establish a base and initiate some messy fighting. However by then letting black easily establish a base just one move later feels somehow pointless.

Your game position after

looks like follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc B has a solid corner with more than 10 points. White has some(?) points at the center lower bottom. $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

You can also look at in in another way. It seems that the white 4/4 stone has more or less lost its purpose as can be concluded from the next position:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Would you think that playing (a) in the given position is a good move? $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . a . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And please note further, that in your game, you defended this purpose-less stone lateron with

!

I do not understand what's wrong with 3/3 at

. Usually, in such pincer situation a black move like

is considered as a mistake since - with

at 3/3 - it eliminates the possibility for black to jump to 3/3 lateron. The outcome of the "standard" 3/3 play may look like follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 1 . O . 4 . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here I see two important differences to the actual gameplay:

- Most important: The black stones at lower left are still unsettled. This means that black will sooner or later need to spend more time on these stones. In this time you can play big moves and black cannot easily interfere with your plans.
- White has the potential of much more points at the bottom (well b may think of invading at H3 but then he will have to take care of H3 and B4 simultaneously!).

A typical follow-up joseki could result in a position like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here, it becomes apparent that the B4/C3 exchange initiated by black is a bad idea. If black continues in a "standardized" way, white can play the wedge-cut, and there is no option left for compensation for the marked stones:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . Y . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . Y . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In such position your pincer

would have done its job in the most impressive way, and I would clearly prefer playing white, here.

Finally, in your embedded move comments you are referring to a similar situation in another game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . O . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . , . . . . C X C . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . O . O . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here, I would say there are the following important differences to the actual game:

- The black stone

is not pincered, i.e. even when you reply at 3/3 black can reply with a two-point extension to the left and is still easily settled.
- There is a good approach (a) for the upper right corner available. In the corresponding situation of your actual game, black has a 3/4 - 5/4 enclosure there (see open circles), which makes a further approach unattractive.

Thus, in general it should be checked if the moves fit to the overall position. They should be not played/avoided just because someone has told you so in a "similar" position.

Two final comments:
- I could not find any empty triangles in your actual game, if you keep that going this will pay off on the long term!
- I am not yet 6d, so please feel free to ignore my whole comment.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:16 am

schawipp wrote: <blah blah c3 important>
- I am not yet 6d, so please feel free to ignore my whole comment.

I am 4d and I endorse this analysis

Calvin Clark · Post by **Calvin Clark** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:14 am

A few comments. Take them with a big grain of salt. I can't read your mind, but is it possible that you are sometimes playing hopeful moves? By this I mean do you see the opponent's refutation for some move, but hope that they don't see it?

I wish you good luck in your future games!

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:53 pm

Kirby wrote:Fedya, I assume you are referring to move 57. It's a nice move for your opponent to consider, I think, since your shape is loose in that area. White has several options for forcing, so there are a lot of variations to read out.

Yes, that was the move I was referring to.

Now that you've seen it, if the colors were reversed, would you be able to consider move 57 as a play against your opponent? If it annoyed you, it would probably annoy some of your opponents, too, right?

If the only thing you get from this game is to be able to consider a move like 57 and the followups in the next game you play, surely you've grown a little bit.

Or do you mean that this type of move won't occur to you?

That's a good question. Certainly, during the game the only weakness I thought I had was on the other side. During games, I try to think about where my opponents might have weaknesses, and what weaknesses I might have that my opponents can exploit. Obviously, I don't always get it right: I play attacks that don't work at all, or defensive moves that are unneccessary, to fix weaknesses that aren't.

I'll try harder to find my opponent's weaknesses.

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:04 pm

Calvin Clark wrote:Hmm. (Comments on are on 1st game.)

White 8 confused you, but did you try to look it up? It's not as rare a move as you might think. One thing you might try is doing more database searches in pro games, even if it's just very local shapes. You may discover something interesting about your choice of black 9.

It appears you don't study joseki much. (My apologies, but it's pretty clear to me just from this one game.) May I ask why not?

I have to admit that I don't study joseki anywhere near as much as I probably should. My strategy has always been to learn through error: that is, when I get a bad result in a game, look up the joseki to see what I should have done. I actually looked up

on josekipedia, and it didn't have much.

There's the problem of moves that aren't in joseki dictionaries and figuring out how to respond to them, but there's also a similar problem: I've played games on the turn-based servers where I use a joseki dictionary, only to get to the end of the joseki line and be stumped about what to do next, or with the result.

You took 33 seconds to play move 81. I know that's a stressful position, but how's your reading? Would you play that move in a problem your were doing off the board? In general if you can add a couple of stones to your reading ability (easier said than done!) it will translate directly in improvement over the board. But there's a catch: you have to bring it and read over the board calmly as you would when doing a problem in private.

I think there are two big problems with my reading. One is that I read out a variation and think it looks good, and then when the stones are actually on the board it doesn't look quite as good as I thought when I was doing reading.

The other, much more frustrating one, is to read out a variation, conclude that it works, and then find out once the stones are put on the board that there was an atari that I didn't see when I was trying to read without the benefit of stones on the board.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:07 pm

This might be a case of too many doctors making the patient even sicker, but ...

... I'll continue on my original post:

1. Have a purpose (strategy)
2. See available moves for the purpose (technique/early pruning)
3. Read out the consequence(s) (tactics)
4. Evaluate the result: is the purpose met?
5. Don't switch purposes halfway if there is no pertinent reason to do so

I'll try to identify your "problem" as you perceive it by indicating which of these 5 go wrong (most)

Perhaps we'll identify another "problem" in the process

---- See review for first 25 moves -----

In conclusion, when looking back at the 5 aspects that could be poorly developed:

a) your purposes are mostly well defined
b) the techniques you choose are good when stones don't touch, but in close combat you pick bad moves
c) I cannot judge your reading, but I sense you don't read very far, maybe 3 moves. That's not a big problem for now
d) the evaluation of your reading is also hard to judge but I think it gets blurred by the technical choices you make underway in your reading
e) by far the biggest problem however seems to be that you change purposes midgear and this makes your stones add up awkwardly

All the moves that have little or no purpose at position 25 are the consequence of inconsistent plans. The most obvious place where a White stone should be is also empty due to inconsistent plans.

But I've observed something else: most of the time you make good strategic and technical choices. There is more confidence to be taken from your game than distress. I really think you should simply have more confidence in yourself. You may end up at the other end of the scale: stubbornly carrying on with a bad plan. But this will teach you things and in a more concerted manner.

Good luck!

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:52 pm

Fedya wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:A few questions.

Why did you play S-04?
I thought it secured the corner, and gave me a good result after

Let's look at

, which was a surprise.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Descent $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O 1 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

You had considered "a" and "b" to be miai, but White played the descent at 12 instead.

When the opponent makes a surprising move, it can throw us for a loop. Under stress we may revert to early bad habits that we have overcome, or we may forget our plan and lose our way. It is a good idea to take some time and analyze the surprising move and new situation.

threatens to reduce the Black corner, to crawl, jump, or slide into it. At the same time it protects against the cut at "b", because White can capture the cutting stone in a ladder. It may also be better for eye shape than the solid connection at "b".

But because it does not make a solid connection, it leaves a weakness behind.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Black cuts with a threat $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O 1 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

threatens the atari at 15. After

connects, White is in pretty bad shape. This suggests that Black should keep to the original idea (not quite a plan, as it was) of treating the two cutting points as miai. How might that work?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Variation 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X O 1 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

We may project the sequence through

. Note that this leaves the slide to "a" for Black, an eye stealing tesuji.

Can White do better?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Variation 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X O 1 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White may cover his weakness with

and

, leaving Black to worry about the marked stones.

is big, and

takes care of the

stone. (:b17: -

is a good combination, good choshi. See http://senseis.xmp.net/?Choshi ). But still Black may be concerned about

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Variation 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 O 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X W 1 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black may try the counter atari at 15 and connection at 17. This gives White a ponnuki, but White has lost an extra stone on the right side. Whether to play the counter atari is a judgement call.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Game continuation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O 1 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is not out of the question. Blocking White out of the corner is by itself a large yose, but it also reinstates the miai between "a" and "b" by destroying the ladder. How might that work out?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Sacrifice $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O 4 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O 1 8 | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

sets up a profitable sacrifice when Black cuts. Black is overconcentrated in the corner and the

stone is cut off. Compare this result with the one where White connects at 14 immediately.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Immediate sacrifice $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O 4 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In this sequence Black has a threat to connect underneath at "a". This is plainly better for Black than the later sacrifice.

Regarding the two cutting points as miai is a plan if Black plays one when White connects the other. But blocking off the corner as in the game effectively abandons that plan by making the sacrifice too good for White. To carry out the plan Black needs to cut at P-06 instead. Your call.

{I'll get to the other questions later.

}

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:58 pm

Calvin:

Yes, I did read at move 60! Black extended, as I expected, and I split the black stone at the top. I thought at that point that I got a good result. Shows the quality of my positional analysis.

Knotwilg:

b) the techniques you choose are good when stones don't touch, but in close combat you pick bad moves
c) I cannot judge your reading, but I sense you don't read very far, maybe 3 moves. That's not a big problem for now

Regarding b) I would have thought it was the other way around. I generally feel more comfortable with tactics, and at a loss with strategy.

Regarding c) I should add one other problem I have with my reading. I read out a sequence that looks good and play the first move in it, and somewhere along the way my opponent plays a move I never considered, that seems a lot better than whatever moves I had expected my opponent to play.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:14 pm

Fedya wrote:I should add one other problem I have with my reading. I read out a sequence that looks good and play the first move in it, and somewhere along the way my opponent plays a move I never considered, that seems a lot better than whatever moves I had expected my opponent to play.

Egoistic (hopeful) reading. Discipline can reduce that, and doing so could be worth a couple of stones, maybe more.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:34 am

Fedya wrote:
b) the techniques you choose are good when stones don't touch, but in close combat you pick bad moves
c) I cannot judge your reading, but I sense you don't read very far, maybe 3 moves. That's not a big problem for now
Regarding b) I would have thought it was the other way around. I generally feel more comfortable with tactics, and at a loss with strategy.

Regarding c) I should add one other problem I have with my reading. I read out a sequence that looks good and play the first move in it, and somewhere along the way my opponent plays a move I never considered, that seems a lot better than whatever moves I had expected my opponent to play.

Please reread my full review and you should come to the same conclusion as me, based on the 25 first moves:

1) your strategic ideas are good
2) BUT you switch strategies midgear
3) you indeed have a problem picking the best move for a given strategy, also when calculating the tree following it. Therefore you need a reading on basic technique
4) you must be more confident in yourself and not anticipate on screwing it up again (to prove you suck at Go). You don't suck at Go, you are just trying to get better, like all of us. But while most of us celebrate our successes and are susceptible for positive feedback, it seems you are feeding negative things back to your system.

Fedya · Post by **Fedya** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:45 pm

It gets more interesting. I finally sat down again and played another serious game. I thought I did OK at the beginning, then played a tenuki I possibly shouldn't have, thought I fell behind, was able to get a bunch of territory in the center, got into a position where was I probably winning but was having trouble counting up the score under time constraints, and then... blundered.

When I probably could have won by playing a few simple moves.

(There are a few empty triangles toward the end of the game, but those are endgame moves for making eyeshape.)

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:19 pm

Somehow I can't download your game - the server tries to reestablish the connection each time.

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:20 pm

It wasn't obvious to me that you're losing at the end. I counted and you're down by ~5 points, so you should have played it out anyway.

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:17 pm

This game went pretty well and you should have won it by at least 20+ points. The blunder seems to be caused by the fact that you were not sure about your winning status, which made you unnecessary nervous. Thus, an important hint from that game is to practice more on counting.

After move 138 you were apparently unsure about the count and started some speculative attack on the lower right white group which ended in gote. In such situation it is IMHO better to first focus on the clear sente endgames (A9, D1 and probably D15). Even if you are unsure about the count, if w needs to reply (and there's no important aji getting eliminated) it can't get worse.

Sometimes it feels that you let certain shapes uncompleted, however detailed comments on shape should be done by stronger players.

Finally:

Knotwilg wrote:(There are a few empty triangles toward the end of the game, but those are endgame moves for making eyeshape.)

Are you really, really sure?

aiichigo · Post by **aiichigo** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:59 pm

Hi Fedya,

I think you need to work on your idea of the value of stones, groups and exchanges.

In the game against pagni, after move 7, white pincers, black plays B4, there should be no doubt in your mind, you play at C3.

Quite simply, When white plays at C3, it is bad for black, black has no eyes, and has to run to the middle, white gets a strong formation at the lower side.

But most importantly, if white plays elsewhere and black plays at C3, his group lives, takes the corner, and now white's 4-4 stone is really damaged.

If we examine the two outcomes from this exchange, C3 is an urgent move to make.

The result of the exchange in game is really bad for white. Where it could have been a massive benefit for white if white gets the stone at C3, it turned into a loss for white.

You mention in your game that you think maybe you should have played at C3, I think it should have been your first thought, not even that, it should be played without thinking, C3 is a big point. If you are missing moves like this you need to focus on what the actual value of moves you are making is, so you can make the better moves.

So the first question I would ask is how do you feel about the C3 move, is there a reason you wouldn't want to play it in the game? What responses from Black would you be worried about?

Do you recognise that black is in trouble with a weak group at this point in the game?

Do you know what good moves Black should make in response to your pincer? Rather than the bad move Black played? (3-3, or double pincer at F3, both give OK results for black.)

If this was the normal 4-4 kite joseki, when black makes this move like B4, do you understand why this move is sente, and should almost always be responded to with C3?

How many points did your move at G3 get you, how many would C3 get you, which would be bigger?

One of the most important things I think you should look to develop is your way of interpreting the board. To try and improve your judgement of the game try the following.

Try some lateral tsumego solving...

Examine some tsumego, without looking at hints, instructions, what colour to play first, or anything about what the tsumego is about. Look at the situation, examine the stones and shapes, count liberties, and work out, if white can kill, if black can kill, is it a life and death, is it a connection, is it a tesuji problem? What should white do, what should black do?

Doing a full reading out of simple tsumego is really useful, when you read out the opponent's moves, don't assume the 'strongest' move, in a shortage of liberties situation, its no good trying to save all the stones, the opponent should only try and save some of them, or maybe, none of them. Is there a less obvious move that gets the same result but results in a better shape?

After solving a simple tsumego, consider the results. Locally the results may be pretty obvious who wins or loses out, but does the opponent gain something else, thickness that globally could be important? If he does, is there a different way to play the tsumego, which might not kill the opponent but leave less thickness or more weaknesses that can be useful later?

Another thing to try is an alpha go technique.

Find a game, any game, and pick a random point in it. Then count for both sides.

Then using your count, plus your interpretation of the board, decide who will win.

Then find out who wins.

Was your choice correct? If not then look a bit further to what happened, was it that your count was poor, was it that you didn't interpret the strengths or weaknesses of groups correctly?

This is kind of how alphago trains it's value neural network. The biggest breakthrough of alpha go is it's ability to accurately value the board positions, and from that possible moves and so on, it is an essential skill in go, so you should also work on that.

Give it a go and see how it works out.

Good Luck.

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