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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #41 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:50 am 
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According to Nie Wei Ping in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3Rl9bhXrM

white had a good start after the first exchange at the top right (after W Q12, white right side has almost no aji whereas black influence at the top still needs to be demonstrated).

Then after the second exchange in the left bottom and white got sente to play the G16 move, annihilating black's top influence, the game was almost lost for Ke Jie.

In the post match interview,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3Rl9bhXrM&t=43m0s

Ke Jie said that he still doesn't know what is the good play for black after the first exchange at the top right since he too thinks that white is better.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #42 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:24 am 
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Thanks for the comments about the top right: that attachment does seem to be played a lot these days in a variety of positions and gets some nice results. But I can't help but wonder if the blame can be traced back to the solid connect at the lower right (move 11). I know this is a very common move, and the idea is to not give white the sente turn (though not 100% as we see in related AlphaGo opening) to bolster the right side so leaving more severe invasion aji, but it just looks so inefficient to me with the original shimari stone. I had a look at ps.waltheri and it has a bad win percentage whilst push on top is good, so I think my feelings may be be onto something here. I can't imagine AlphaGo would play the connection, and in the related AlphaGo opening with a 3-4 high approach attach under joseki in progress at top right it famously prefers to push on top instead of descend to 2nd line.
Attachment:
SolidConnect.GIF
SolidConnect.GIF [ 92.84 KiB | Viewed 1893 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #43 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:56 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Thanks for the comments about the top right: that attachment does seem to be played a lot these days in a variety of positions and gets some nice results. But I can't help but wonder if the blame can be traced back to the solid connect at the lower right (move 11). I know this is a very common move, and the idea is to not give white the sente turn (though not 100% as we see in related AlphaGo opening) to bolster the right side so leaving more severe invasion aji, but it just looks so inefficient to me with the original shimari stone. I had a look at ps.waltheri and it has a bad win percentage whilst push on top is good, so I think my feelings may be be onto something here. I can't imagine AlphaGo would play the connection, and in the related AlphaGo opening with a 3-4 high approach attach under joseki in progress at top right it famously prefers to push on top instead of descend to 2nd line.
Attachment:
SolidConnect.GIF


Hi, could you tell me what website or application your screen capture is from? Thank you!

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #44 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:59 am 
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http://ps.waltheri.net/ made by Jan Prokop, a Czech player.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #45 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:01 am 
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For those of you who speak Chinese, here is an analysis of the game between Ke Jie and Park Yeong-hun by Chang Hao (9p).



If anyone who has watched this could give us a summary, it'd be much appreciated. I myself am specifically interested in what Chang Hao thinks is the losing move(s) or losing exchange(s) for Ke Jie.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #46 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:07 am 
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Some summary of the video:

1. Chang Hao liked the exchange at the top-right for white (around the 17:30 mark in the video) since by move 38, white got very good territory on the right especially given black spent two extra moves.

2. Chang Hao questioned b53 (@29:00), thinking extending up at C10 or playing E4 first would be better. He thought even though black ended up capturing the two middle stones, white got more territory from the left and the bottom where Park could focus on reducing b's potential with move 66. Black wasn't necessarily behind by then, but it was always a question how Ke could efficiently turn the outside influence into real points.

3. He wondered (@39:25) if before b85, black could have played the cut at C12 first, or maybe as a ko threat when the ko was still active. An exchange of c12 + b12 would allow b to extend at e13 later to connect instead of resorting to h14. H14 ended up helping white as w just naturally sacrificed the one stone while eliminating all the influence b had from the right group. By move 98, he said it's going to be difficult for b in term of territory. He did a count at that time (@45:00) and had both b and w at 55 points, and w had little weakness by then.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #47 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:26 am 
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xiayun wrote:
Some summary of the video:

1. Chang Hao liked the exchange at the top-right for white (around the 17:30 mark in the video) since by move 38, white got very good territory on the right especially given black spent two extra moves.

2. Chang Hao questioned b53 (@29:00), thinking extending up at C10 or playing E4 first would be better. He thought even though black ended up capturing the two middle stones, white got more territory from the left and the bottom where Park could focus on reducing b's potential with move 66. Black wasn't necessarily behind by then, but it was always a question how Ke could efficiently turn the outside influence into real points.

3. He wondered (@39:25) if before b85, black could have played the cut at C12 first, or maybe as a ko threat when the ko was still active. An exchange of c12 + b12 would allow b to extend at e13 later to connect instead of resorting to h14. H14 ended up helping white as w just naturally sacrificed the one stone while eliminating all the influence b had from the right group. By move 98, he said it's going to be difficult for b in term of territory. He did a count at that time (@45:00) and had both b and w at 55 points, and w had little weakness by then.


Thank you very much!

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #48 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:27 am 
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xiayun wrote:
Some summary of the video:

1. Chang Hao liked the exchange at the top-right for white (around the 17:30 mark in the video) since by move 38, white got very good territory on the right especially given black spent two extra moves.

2. Chang Hao questioned b53 (@29:00), thinking extending up at C10 or playing E4 first would be better. He thought even though black ended up capturing the two middle stones, white got more territory from the left and the bottom where Park could focus on reducing b's potential with move 66. Black wasn't necessarily behind by then, but it was always a question how Ke could efficiently turn the outside influence into real points.

3. He wondered (@39:25) if before b85, black could have played the cut at C12 first, or maybe as a ko threat when the ko was still active. An exchange of c12 + b12 would allow b to extend at e13 later to connect instead of resorting to h14. H14 ended up helping white as w just naturally sacrificed the one stone while eliminating all the influence b had from the right group. By move 98, he said it's going to be difficult for b in term of territory. He did a count at that time (@45:00) and had both b and w at 55 points, and w had little weakness by then.


Thank you very much, and happy holidays!

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #49 Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Hi,
does anyone know when the final is taking place ?
Thanks a lot

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #50 Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:41 am 
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AleXi3l wrote:
Hi,
does anyone know when the final is taking place ?
Thanks a lot


June 2017

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #51 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:57 pm 
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The Best of 3 final between Park Yeong-hun and Tan Xiao will start on 06/23.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #52 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:13 pm 
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The start time has changed from 9:30am to 11:00am local time (8pm PST) to fit the CCTV broadcasting schedule. And apparently there will be a match for 3rd place too, between Ke Jie and Gu Zihao; don't know why that's needed.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #53 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:01 am 
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Results from June 23rd

Ke Jie beat Gu Zihao for 11th consecutive win after the AG matches and won the 3rd place.

Tan Xiao beat Park Yeong-hun in game 1 (best of 3) by killing a big dragon. Park resigned at move 184.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #54 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:54 am 
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wolfking wrote:
Ke Jie beat Gu Zihao for 11th consecutive win after the AG matches and won the 3rd place.

As some people seem to take this win streak (and Lee's after his match) as evidence playing AlphaGo made them stronger (similar claim about Fan Hui), it's worth pointing out that for top players like Lee/Ke such win streaks are not unheard of, for example Ke had a 17 game win streak Oct 2013 - Apr 2017 (of games in go4go) and 2 11s in Jun-Jul 2014 and Aug-Sep 2015, and quite a few 7-9s.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #55 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:56 am 
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A lot of Chinese news have headline like 'Are there any 'human' that can defeat Ke Jie now?' or something like that from Google translate. But since Ke Jie also love being in the spotlight I think this is the win-win situation.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #56 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:39 pm 
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pookpooi wrote:
A lot of Chinese news have headline like 'Are there any 'human' that can defeat Ke Jie now?' or something like that from Google translate. But since Ke Jie also love being in the spotlight I think this is the win-win situation.


Care to explain what you meant by "Ke Jie also love being in the spotlight I think this is the win-win situation"?

How does he love being in the spotlight? What evidence or examples do you have in backing up this assertion of yours?

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #57 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:31 pm 
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ewan1971 wrote:
How does he love being in the spotlight? What evidence or examples do you have in backing up this assertion of yours?


Finding evidence to back up subjective claim is harder than objective claim
Image
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #58 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:24 pm 
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pookpooi wrote:
ewan1971 wrote:
How does he love being in the spotlight? What evidence or examples do you have in backing up this assertion of yours?


Finding evidence to back up subjective claim is harder than objective claim
Image
Image
Image


So posting on social media and not minding other people talking about what he posts is the same as loving the spotlight?

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #59 Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:41 pm 
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ewan1971 wrote:
pookpooi wrote:
ewan1971 wrote:
How does he love being in the spotlight? What evidence or examples do you have in backing up this assertion of yours?


Finding evidence to back up subjective claim is harder than objective claim
Image
Image
Image


So posting on social media and not minding other people talking about what he posts is the same as loving the spotlight?


Haha for a GO player I think its a fair statement! I mean, we don't talk about GO players like they're fashion models who "love the spotlight". He gives us a sense that he likes the competition in GO as well as the celebrity part of it. He's good at interacting with the media and likes to talk to his fans. For a GO player, thats enough spotlight loving :p

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #60 Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:56 am 
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qingshu wrote:
Haha for a GO player I think its a fair statement! I mean, we don't talk about GO players like they're fashion models who "love the spotlight".

Talking of fashion, check this photoshoot/interview Ke Jie did:
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzA5NT ... Tu1QneRolx

As for the final, in the 2nd game Park Yeonghun beat Tan Xiao by half a point after a long endgame, as is his speciality. So it goes to a deciding 3rd game (probably day after tomorrow).

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