LZ with over 50k playout consider localy :

E4 : 21.3% with 40k playouts :



F3 : 21.6% with 16k playouts :



B3 : 20.7% with 4.7k playouts :



G3 and E3 get less than 20 playouts (so, not really seriously considered), with sub 20% winrate each

Other options are to tenuki, but with kinda low playouts (lower than B3).

Edit : added the "best" continuation that LZ plan for each of these moves

Nice to see LZ approves of my f3 in response to white b3

It's even the only move it consider (over 65k playout for it, while the others are all under 500)

Hi Tryss,

Thank you.

Noob question: is there a significance between the 40k (E4) v. 16k (F3) playouts ? Their winrates are very close ( 21.3% & 21.6% ),
but the playouts are quite different ?

Is it Lizzie ? Very pretty interface.

Just curious: what's LZ's winrate for , given 2-stones ?
Does 's winrate start from ~0% and climb up to ~20% by ?
Or is it the opposite ? 's winrate starts out higher than 20% at ( but under 50%, obviously ), and drops to ~20% by ?

Before , LZ gives white around 21% winrate, so there is no real winrate change by . Note that this evaluation is with 7.5 komi for white .


For the playouts, I'm pretty sure the difference is noise (due to the randomness of the tree exploration). I just did another run, and the results were :

F3 : 21.4% winrate with 42k playouts

E4 : 21.0% winrate with 33k playouts

B3 : 20.5% winrate with 8k playouts

So while last time LZ would have played E4, this time it would have played F3.

(I spend a little more playouts here, but the result would have been the same if I stopped a little earlier : F3 took the lead early this time)


And yes, this is lizzie

Tryss, Thank you.

Huh, interesting analysis. I'm surprised W is down to only ~20% winrate after less that 20 moves!

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Again it's been too long. I've played (and lost) a couple tonight. One was a fun close fight that I ended up losing by 22.5. I'll attach it in case anyone is interested and wants to open up the SGF themselves for any comments, but I reviewed it with my opponent and I'm much more curious about the second game, where I ended up with a wall across the centre and then messed up attacks (kills?) on two invading groups. I went through and added some thoughts of my own, but the opening was a little weird as well as messing up the fights in the midgame.

Hi dutchie,

human.

slow.

human:

slow, small.
( The game was B to lose after here. )

, how about kick-pincer combo ?

Does LZ like o17 area ?

What does LZ think of this ?

What does LZ think about @ F9 directly ?
( foundation shapes study... )

( + ), ( + ) Foundation shapes study .
Instead of these 4 moves, imagine just 1 move around o17 area.
( Variation in SGF here still not sensing global perspective. )

Recent thread about direction.

note in SGF, "...make shape in the middle" --
Still missing global perspective, what mistakes led B to this position,
how to handle these stones.

( + ) Hmm. Note in SGF, "No mindless atari" is good;
but insufficient here. ( emphasis on mindless, not atari. )
Problem here is knowledge gaps in foundation shapes.

( + ), ( + ) See Toothpaste and fractured shapes.

P16. Foundation shapes study .

After , LZ gives white around 30% winrate

LZ choice. Interesting note : her favorite pincer after the kick is D11. This move is never on my radar, so I learned something new here. (but other pincers seems playable)


LZ choice too

-11% winrate, black advantage is mostly gone (black has now 53% winrate)

You mean D9? (L9 is in the middle of the board). If so, less bad, but LZ favorite move is the D8 kosumi

The elephant eye at E11 feels like a serious mistake. I mean, LZ can manage to get an ok result from it, but the knight move at E10 or the 1 space jump at E9 feels much less error prone.


After 37, black winrate is down to 22%, a loss of over 40% winrate compared to the situation after

Hi Tryss,

Thanks.Yea, D11 quite natural. Human reasoning: D12 too close to
W's iron pillar, so pull back to D11 ( but I don't know bot reasoning ).
Thanks; typo: I meant F9 knight's. D8 kosumi, thanks.@dutchie: LZ's 'hint' to you: what was your plan for at E11 ? You're not building a huge moyo. Just take a big point ( O17 area ) and keep the lead.@dutchie, LZ's lesson for you (thanks to Tryss): how to lose the game in 8 moves...

Thank you folks, a lot to think about. I honestly completely forgot that kick/pincer moves even existed, Direction of play and whole board thinking are so important!

Hi Tryss,

Hi Tryss,

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

But maybe we should move this conversation elsewhere

Hi Tryss, Bill