Knotwilg's practice

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John Fairbairn
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by John Fairbairn »

Believe it or not, I thought of including "wedge" in the list of options. I didn't think it was a pincer, because of it being "pre-counterpincered" nor an invasion because of the missing idea of "occupying enemy territory" which you stated. But I didn't think it was a wedge, because that has a notion of contact to me - and I mean, regardless of general use, intuitively a wedge is in touch with either side of the wedged.

"Separation" maybe?
I want to say a firm No. But we are stuck with decades of poor rendering of Japanese terms, and there's only so much pissing in the wind one wants to do.

The two terms that use 'wedge' in English are for the Japanese terms wariuchi and warikomi. That is, they both use the verb 'waru', which means to divide, separate, cleave asunder, split, bisect, chop a dead parrot apart, etc. We tend to use 'splitting attack' for wariuchi (though 'wedge' does appear), which is fine for the waru part, but there's no actual attack involved. Indeed, it's usually gote rather than sente! The -uchi just adds an idea of forcefulness. But if you use 'split' there you should surely use 'split' in warikomi. In fact, the whole point of a warikomi is that it does split. A wedge (e.g. as in a door wedge) has no separation of its own. It's a tapered object that simply gets jammed into something. It may cause a surface crack, but on its own it doesn't cleave asunder, i.e. it doesn't waru. The separation association in English comes from the phrase 'drive a wedge into', but even there the real sense is creating a crack rather than a complete fissure.

Uchikomi comes from 'hit' and 'into'. Which is a wedging action. In military terms, the Japanese would not use uchikomi for, say, the D-Day invasion. They would say shinryaku. But they could say uchikomi for the air attacks that preceded the invasion landings. These air attacks were hammer blows that created wedges/cracks in the German positions. In go, the Japanese idea is to disrupt the opponent's positions so that he can't get settled territory. It has nothing to do with living inside. Some people seem to make the mistake of thinking -komi means 'in' therefore = 'inside.' But as a verbal suffix the meaning is 'into', 'inwards'.
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by kvasir »

I haven't looked at the whole game but it struck me that these are the approximate moves I'd want for black in the next few moves and there is also the possibility of doing something in the upper left corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , A . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . A . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O X . A . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I was perplexed that black was trying to build the framework on the upper side. To me :b25: is something like a "one more thing first" move and :b29: is attacking from the wrong side. Neither is much of a mistake but I feel like if black plays anything in the upper left corner it should be something like a, b or c. I will admit I have already looked at katago because I thought K3 was important, so I am very confident :D but one thing I have been learning from KataGo is that big moves in the opening do have a priority order that is rather similar to what we learned in the past. For example I'd say :b29: is smaller than d and e is the more usual attack. KataGo debates f and e instead of :b29:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . 5 4 . . . . d . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b O . 6 . . . , . . . . X , 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O X . f . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Anyway, none of these are big mistakes if they can even be called mistakes. White was the one making big mistakes in the opening.

About the middle game. I think black could have captured in a net on move 57 or jumped to L9 to keep the attack going. It looks to me like white jumps ahead of black on move 64 because black effectively pushed from behind starting at 57.
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by Knotwilg »

kvasir wrote:I haven't looked at the whole game but it struck me that these are the approximate moves I'd want for black in the next few moves and there is also the possibility of doing something in the upper left corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , A . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . A . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O X . A . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I was perplexed that black was trying to build the framework on the upper side. To me :b25: is something like a "one more thing first" move
:b25: was mostly inspired by "if you have sente, look for the largest open area", which is the top. Given the overall position, a 3-3 invasion would have been better - but I got a little tired of those :)

:b29: is probably the wrong direction but with the open skirt at the bottom I saw no prospect of building there and was planning to answer an approach with a simple settling keima, but then I chose to "wedge" with :b31: instead.

About the middle game. I think black could have captured in a net on move 57 or jumped to L9 to keep the attack going. It looks to me like white jumps ahead of black on move 64 because black effectively pushed from behind starting at 57.
Oh absolutely, not even considering the net was a poor piece of go playing. There are 3 moves from this game in my mistakes series:

http://senseis.xmp.net?DietersMistakesIn2022/Problem36
http://senseis.xmp.net?DietersMistakesIn2022/Problem37
http://senseis.xmp.net?DietersMistakesIn2022/Problem38

Thanks!
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by Knotwilg »



Mistake analysis at 30, 38 and 62

The highlight for me however is this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 77 to 78
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | O . . O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O O . . O X . X O . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X . X , . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . . . , . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . b . O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Before, I would likely have connected at A. Since I have been studying my games with KataGo, I recognize this as a "slow connection" and have become wary of playing bamboos or table shapes on auto-pilot. :w2: is what I came up with for a more active defense and it's the blue move by KataGo (competing with B globally).
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by dust »

W78 is indeed a very nice move.

B43 was a bit of a sad retreat.Black could take the corner - but the most fun option for Black might be to try a large scale 'heavy plastering' sacrifice style with d12, and take outside strength.
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by Knotwilg »

A few months into 2022 these are the patterns in my mistakes, reformulated as positive actions;

1. Strategic choices
surround in sente (7)
cut/connect vulnerable groups; play elswhere if connecting is submissive (4)
reinforce weak stones if they help forming or destroying territories (3)
attack the bigger group (3)
sacrifice unimportant stones to become strong in the important area (3)
corner plays are big even in the middle game, especially when carried out so that one keeps the initiative (2)

The most important principle is to surround in sente. The sente part means that if the opponent doesn't answer, the group can be killed. If surrounding means it can be harassed next to gain some points, that may be offset by the opponent's move elsewhere. So if surrounding doesn't threaten to kill, then it might be better to play elsewhere myself. It requires L&D skills to make such a judgment so it's not a trivial decision process.

Likewise, cutting or connecting groups is valuable if both groups are somewhat vulnerable. In this case it doesn't mean they are both killable when disconnected but it's important that both are weak enough to be harassed next and the opponent can only reinforce one of them. If the connection or cut doesn't achieve this double threat, it's better to play elsewhere. If a connection saves 2 groups and simultaneously cuts vulnerable opponent groups, the move becomes very valuable.

2. Technique/tactics
see the tesuji (7)
correct cutting/connecting technique (3)
see local ko threats (2)

In many cases I simply didn't spot the tesuji. There's only one way to become better at it: more exercises, probably more difficult ones.
When the decision to cut or connect is proper, then still there are multiple ways of doing so and it's worthwhile spending time on selecting the best move.

3. Awareness/attitude

kill when you can and spot opportunities to do so / see the danger and defend (7)
read several alternatives 3 moves deep (3)

Many of my mistakes or even blunders were due to a lack of awareness about a situation changing due to activity in its vicinity. In other cases I was just too lazy to even consider quite obviously better moves than the one I played.

Given these patterns I'm going to play my next 10 games with this compass:

North: surround in sente / avoid being surrounded in sente
West: be aware of changing conditions to stable situations when activity spreads into their vicinity
East: cut and connect vulnerable groups & figure out the best way of doing so
South: (practice more tesuji like problems)

See https://senseis.xmp.net/?DietersMistakesIn2022
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by Knotwilg »

So here's an update on what's partly a vanity thread, partly a way for this extravert to keep up the motivation.

To give a bit of context to anyone who might be interested in my journey, I went from a beginner in 1995 to a 2 dan in 2001 and over the past 20+ years have been stuck at that level. There's still something in me that wants to get to 3d or even 4d but the big part of me doesn't think I have it in me, in terms of talent and devotion. In 2021 I intensified my efforts due to time having been freed up by the pandemic's impact on social life and this has resulted in the "mistakes" series on Sensei's Library. I have regained my 2d ranks at both OGS and KGS, which now appear to be well calibrated again, and I have the feeling the mistakes series and thorough AI review has improved or reinforced my conceptual thinking but won't pay any more dividends towards 3d.

Time to change the approach. There's a saying that you can't expect a considerable change in results if you don't change your approach. In particular you have to be willing to do what you might dread most. In my case that could be

- play longer games (or play blitz games, but I don't think so) because I need to find a way to read more and better during the game
- study joseki
- invert the focus and store good moves for posterity instead of mistakes

So, I will end the "mistakes" series and instead focus on those occasions where I was making a conscious choice between alternatives and made the right choice. I will start studying joseki. And I'm going to change my standard time settings from 5m+5x30s to 20m+5x1m.
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by dust »

I'll be interested to follow the new approach. I'm around the same level.

I'm a bit surprised that you've chosen to study joseki. The reason is that it's not unusual these days to see commentaries on 1d and 2d games along the lines "Move 40 - up to this point both sides have played almost perfectly", which would almost never happen pre-AI days. The "opening gospel according to AI" goes a long way!

My own conclusion from studying my games with AI is that the opening and joseki probably provide diminishing returns for improvement. In my highly subjective self-diagnosis the two main areas holding me back are 1) reading ability; and possibly related to that, 2) a solid 'safe' style that in practice is just not fast or dynamic enough to play at a higher level. AI has shown me how its possible to play more dynamically and the power of the tenuki, and I've made some minuscule improvements - but it needs good reading to carry it off effectively.
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by Knotwilg »

dust wrote:I'll be interested to follow the new approach. I'm around the same level.
Good to have a "follower" - let's follow each other then!
dust wrote:I'm a bit surprised that you've chosen to study joseki. The reason is that it's not unusual these days to see commentaries on 1d and 2d games along the lines "Move 40 - up to this point both sides have played almost perfectly", which would almost never happen pre-AI days. The "opening gospel according to AI" goes a long way!
Perhaps you are right. I only chose this because it's something I've always steered away from, so if I change my approach that's an easy find.
dust wrote:My own conclusion from studying my games with AI is that the opening and joseki probably provide diminishing returns for improvement. In my highly subjective self-diagnosis the two main areas holding me back are 1) reading ability; and possibly related to that, 2) a solid 'safe' style that in practice is just not fast or dynamic enough to play at a higher level. AI has shown me how its possible to play more dynamically and the power of the tenuki, and I've made some minuscule improvements - but it needs good reading to carry it off effectively.
Very close to my own conclusions. As you may have read, besides specific situations which just required better reading, the corrective heuristics I found were 1) surround in sente (but not necessarily when not sente) 2) avoid slow connections and heavy cuts 3) beware of fights spreading to positions with aji - check the impact 4) take some time to read out a race to capture or a L&D situation (subset of "read more" actually)

Perhaps I'll drop the joseki vow and just go for longer games with more reading.
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by Knotwilg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 268 to 268
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X X O . . O . X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . . O O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . O O X X X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X O O . . . . O O O O O X X X X . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . . O X X O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X X O O . . . . O O X X O . O X . |
$$ | O X X . B O O . O O O X X O O O O O X |
$$ | O O X X W . O O X O X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X X X X . O X X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O X X O O X X O X O O O X X |
$$ | . O O O X O O X O O O X X . X X O X O |
$$ | . O X X X X O O X X O O X . X O O O O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . . . . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O O X X X X X O . O . O O . . |
$$ | O O X . . . . . O O O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X , X O X O X O . . . |
$$ | X . X X O X O O X X X X X X X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O O O X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . O O X . . X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This was a tight game where the ko at the marked stones was potentially decisive as it makes a local difference of 2 points and by my count we were close to that difference. White played :w1: as a ko threat. Is it a real ko threat or not?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 268 to 268
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 5 . X X O . . O . X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | a 4 b X O . O . . O O X X . X . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X X O . . O O X X X O X X . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X O O . . . . O O O O O X X X X . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . . O X X O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X X O O . . . . O O X X O . O X . |
$$ | O X X . B O O . O O O X X O O O O O X |
$$ | O O X X W 2 O O X O X X X O X . X X . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X X X X . O X X . X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O X X O O X X O X O O O X X |
$$ | . O O O X O O X O O O X X . X X O X O |
$$ | . O X X X X O O X X O O X . X O O O O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . . . . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . O O O O O X X X X X O . O . O O . . |
$$ | O O X . . . . . O O O O O O . O . . . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X X , X O X O X O . . . |
$$ | X . X X O X O O X X X X X X X X O . . |
$$ | . X X X X X O . O O O X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . O O X . . X O O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yes it is. :w5: is the tesuji. A and B are miai.
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by Knotwilg »

In the context of changing my diet to finally reach 3d, I've played a correspondence game, allowing me all the time I need to read. It was very difficult to resist using AI or resist figuring out sequences offline with CGoban. I did use the editor to track the game and label points that I wanted to occupy if sente. I don't know what the ethics actually are for a correspondence game.

The quality of the game was much higher than my usual game and I won by resignation, about 25 points ahead in the endgame. The opponent didn't make it very difficult for me but some decisions required major reading. The key point in the game was a corner invasion which I could locally kill but which came with a lot of bad potential on the outside, however the opponent didn't exploit that potential all too well.

It's pretty satisfying to make no blunders and to see your thought process being mimicked in some of the opponent's moves. Definitely more fun than my usual half blitzing. So longer time limits are here to stay for a while.

Kudos to my opponent for allowing two undos for a touchscreen slip on my mobile, after which I decided not to use mobile again.

I'll post the analysis later.
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by jlt »

Concerning the ethics, AI is of course forbidden. If you play on OGS, you are generally allowed to explore variations with your mouse on the analysis board, unless analysis is disabled.

Correspondence ranks are a bit inflated from my experience (I am weak 1d correspondence, weak 1k live games on OGS).
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by Knotwilg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 62 to 71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . 6 5 . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . . X . . X 7 0 3 . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . X , . . . . 8 X 1 9 . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . X , X O O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . . O . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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[go]$$W Expected
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . 6 5 . 7 . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . . X . . X . 1 . 3 . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . X , . . . . 2 X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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[go]$$W Moves 72 to 81
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b c . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . X O 1 3 2 8 |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . . X . . X O X O a 5 |
$$ | . X O O O . . . X , . . 0 9 X X O O 4 |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 6 |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . X , X O O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . . O . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It seems White realized only at this point that a-b-c would suffer from shortage of liberties.
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[go]$$W Moves 82 to 91
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . X O O O X X |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . . X . . X O X O . O |
$$ | . X O O O . . . X , . . X 4 X X O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 1 X X X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 5 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . X , X O O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . . O . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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[go]$$W Difficult
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . X O O O X X |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . . X . . X O X O 1 O |
$$ | . X O O O . . . X , . . X O X X O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 0 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X . d . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . |[/go]
I was also calculating this
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[go]$$W Difficult (ctd)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . X X X X O O O . . X . . X O X O O O |
$$ | . X O O O . . . X , . . X O X X O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X X X |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X 5 2 . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . 6 X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . |[/go]
kvasir
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by kvasir »

It occurred to me that you are not killing all of the white stones here
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[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ . X . . X O 2 O . . |
$$ , . . . . X X O 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , X . . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O 5 . 3 7 |
$$ . X . . X O 2 O . 4 |
$$ , . . . . X X O 1 6 |
$$ . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , X . . |[/go]
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[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O 4 7 3 . |
$$ . X . . X O 2 O . 5 |
$$ , . . . . X X O 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X 6 |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , X . . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm4
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . . 1 2 6 . |
$$ . . . . X O 3 5 O . |
$$ . X . . X O X O . 8 |
$$ , . . . . X X O O 4 |
$$ . . . . . . . X X 7 |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , X . . |[/go]
Hope this is right.
I think the right way to go about it is
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[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . 2 . 4 5 . |
$$ . . . . X O . . 3 . |
$$ . X . . X O . O . 6 |
$$ , . . . . X X O 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , X . . |[/go]
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[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O 3 . 4 . |
$$ . X . . X O . O . . |
$$ , . . . . X X O 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , X . . |[/go]

White's usual spiel in this shape is to go for the outside cutting points but black is very strong on the outside in this game, or create a ko shape by threatening to connect with something on the top side. At least that is what I think I learned somewhere.
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[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . T . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O . . 1 . |
$$ . X . . X O . O . . |
$$ , . . . T X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . T X X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . X . X . . . |
$$ , . . . . . , X . . |[/go]
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Knotwilg
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Re: Knotwilg's practice

Post by Knotwilg »

A very instructive game today (regaining me my 2d rank which seems to be far from solid still)
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[go]$$B Moves 31 to 31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . b . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . O . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . a . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Instead of solidly finishing the 3-3 invasion pattern at A, Black tries something more efficient. If Black had played A, White would probably have played elsewhere. But how about now? Should White immediately "punish" at A, or is that an overplay? Should White defend at B now that Black has played closer to this group, or would that be submissive and will Black's bad aji provide ample protection? Or should White play away, for example the invasion at C?
KataGo likes both A and B, rather than C. B is the actual move KataGo wants to play, but increasing the aji by first probing if A is sente is also possible.
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[go]$$W Moves 32 to 39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . O . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . b 7 X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . a 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I opted for the invasion at :w1:. After :b8: we have been taught to force at A. But can White afford to play here in this case? That is, can Black play B and go for the ko?
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[go]$$W Moves 40 to 42
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . O . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 1 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is the ko we're talking about. As far as KataGo is concerned - and I think I remember this from pro games - White should close his eyes for any ko threat and connect:
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[go]$$W Connect
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . X , O O . . . O . . . . O X X O C |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ | . . . O C . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . C O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Whether it's the strong cut of either corner position, or killing the upper right by 2 hanes, nothing compares to connecting the ko.
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[go]$$B Moves 71 to 71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . X O |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . X , O O O . . O . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . 1 O . O X X . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . X O O X . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , O X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As an exercise White's tesuji is easy to see but I was pretty pleased to do so in the game.
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[go]$$B Moves 71 to 71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . X O |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . X , O O O . . O . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . 1 W . O X X . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X a X O O X . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 2 b X X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , O X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
A and B are miai for capturing the cutting stones. The marked move had this follow-up in mind but the variations are far more complex if Black connects at A instead of :b1:
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