Ichiriki Ryo
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pajaro
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Today, Ichiriki Ryo beat Iyama Yuta in the 7th game of the Kisei, and won the match 4-3, after being 3-1 and losing 2 deciding games. I think you only call it "kadoban" from the point of view of the player behind, but well.
Ichiriki is the new Kisei, after 9 years of Iyama Kisei, and a failed attempt (0-4) some years ago and other defeats in other titles.
How will this change the Japanese go scene? We'll see.
Ichiriki is the new Kisei, after 9 years of Iyama Kisei, and a failed attempt (0-4) some years ago and other defeats in other titles.
How will this change the Japanese go scene? We'll see.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
It was great to see the match taken to game 7. Ichiriki got to hold up 1 finger for the news reporters so it must have been a great day for him.
https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/igoshougi/kis ... 50218/amp/
Its going to be exciting seeing 4 faces under Title Holder. And what about Shibano? I wonder if he will make a come back at some point.
https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/igoshougi/kis ... 50218/amp/
Its going to be exciting seeing 4 faces under Title Holder. And what about Shibano? I wonder if he will make a come back at some point.
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gazzawhite
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Ichiriki also won the Shin Ryusei, and so interestingly holds titles at the fastest and slowest time controls in professional go.
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pajaro
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
You can add NHK. Fast go, but still reasonable.gazzawhite wrote:Ichiriki also won the Shin Ryusei, and so interestingly holds titles at the fastest and slowest time controls in professional go.
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gazzawhite
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Speaking of NHK Cup, does anyone know why the Asian TV Cup hasn't been held since 2019? Is it because they don't want to hold it online? I'd be keen to see Ichiriki take on Shin Jinseo at fast time controls.
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pajaro
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Ichiriki will challenge Iyama in the Honinbo for the first time.
Ichiriki beat Yo Seiki today in the play-off, after Yo lost to Shibano in the last game. Too bad, I wanted Yo to be the challenger.
If Ichiriki wins the title, then the papers can talk about a new era. The answer, before summer.
Ichiriki beat Yo Seiki today in the play-off, after Yo lost to Shibano in the last game. Too bad, I wanted Yo to be the challenger.
If Ichiriki wins the title, then the papers can talk about a new era. The answer, before summer.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Yeah, I was rooting for Yo Seiki also but Ichiriki showed his strength. I reviewed the broadcast quickly but it seems like Ichiriki kept the initiative since the beginning.
Now he's off to get married to Iyama at the Kinkeikaku wedding shrine 金渓閣. The venue looks very nice. https://kinkeikaku.official-wedding.jp/
Now he's off to get married to Iyama at the Kinkeikaku wedding shrine 金渓閣. The venue looks very nice. https://kinkeikaku.official-wedding.jp/
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kvasir
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Now he has lost 5 games in a row against Iyama. That despite having some very favorable positions. It is no record, though. If gorating.com is a good source (could be for the top players) then he lost 13 games in a row to Iyama between December 2016 and February 2018. Not sure which is more surprising, that their clashes have been so lopsided at times or how many games they have been playing each other.pajaro wrote:Today, Ichiriki Ryo beat Iyama Yuta in the 7th game of the Kisei, and won the match 4-3, after being 3-1 and losing 2 deciding games. I think you only call it "kadoban" from the point of view of the player behind, but well.
Ichiriki is the new Kisei, after 9 years of Iyama Kisei, and a failed attempt (0-4) some years ago and other defeats in other titles.
How will this change the Japanese go scene? We'll see.
Somehow Ichiriki is almost always the challenger despite last year's challenger usually being thrown in with the next 20 or so players every year to fight for the right to challenge again.
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pajaro
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
For a long time, nobody has had a good record against Iyama. In Japan, of course.
Ichiriki from 2016 and the current Ichiriki are not the same player. Who is the same person, 6 years later? Iyama was already a multiple title holder. It is only natural that the gap closes a bit. But not enough.
After winning the Kisei, 5 loses in a row is very hard. I can't judge his go strength. I can't say if he is playing worse, I can't point at his mistakes... But I guess that his head has a lot to do. I have said this before, in mental strength Iyama is waaay above his rivals, IMHO. When I see them playing, there is something in Ichiriki's body language... I always think that he's having a very hard time.
Ichiriki from 2016 and the current Ichiriki are not the same player. Who is the same person, 6 years later? Iyama was already a multiple title holder. It is only natural that the gap closes a bit. But not enough.
After winning the Kisei, 5 loses in a row is very hard. I can't judge his go strength. I can't say if he is playing worse, I can't point at his mistakes... But I guess that his head has a lot to do. I have said this before, in mental strength Iyama is waaay above his rivals, IMHO. When I see them playing, there is something in Ichiriki's body language... I always think that he's having a very hard time.
Last edited by pajaro on Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
I feel like it's the Iyama and Ichiriki show. A week or two ago I went back to see how much they have been playing and I realized it was not quite as much as I thought it was. It's definitely true that they've been playing together a lot recently but Iyama had plenty of different challengers in the last couple years. Shibano challenged the Honinbo the previous 2 times and the Meijin the previous time. And Kono Rin challenged the Kisei before Ichiriki took it.kvasir wrote:Somehow Ichiriki is almost always the challenger despite last year's challenger usually being thrown in with the next 20 or so players every year to fight for the right to challenge again.
But yeah, a bunch of the recent title matches have been Iyama vs Ichiriki (including all of the 2 day matches, so double the video streams):
-current Gosei title
-Honinbo
-Kisei
-Meijin (2021)
-Gosei (2021)
Also:
-Oza tournament final-round (streamed)
I feel like they have had other non-title match games on stream but I can't remember.
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kvasir
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
They are 8 - 4 so far this year but Ichiriki lost the last 5 games. The thing is that Ichiriki is 27 - 13 so far this year in his official games and excluding Iyama he is at 23 - 5. This is a very solid performance. On the other hand Iyama is at 13 - 9 and only 5 - 5 when excluding Ichiriki. It is a fantastic performance by Ichiriki this year, winning the Kisei and NHK, but with 5 loses in a row in the never ending matchup I am wondering if there is a phycological problem for him going into these games with Iyama.
It could also be that he is overcompensating by trying to avoid wild upsets when he is ahead, something that has happened often against Iyama. In one of the lost games there was a ko that was resolved by Ichiriki in a way that just can't be right. In another game he seemed to try to clinch the win, after a ko was resolved, by playing an empty triangle that peeped at a cutting point but the computer is adamant that he was winning only if he played a normal move and even winning by huge 8 points! It can be hard to impossible to tell for sure who is ahead after large exchanges, it is plausible for even top players to make mistakes if they try to clinch on a perceived lead a bit too early but this is overthinking, instead consider the example of Fujisawa Hideyuki who would rage at his students if he saw them play moves with the sole aim of winning, tell them what they were doing was not Go and order them to start over. Is Ichiriki guilty of trying to win?
It could also be that he is overcompensating by trying to avoid wild upsets when he is ahead, something that has happened often against Iyama. In one of the lost games there was a ko that was resolved by Ichiriki in a way that just can't be right. In another game he seemed to try to clinch the win, after a ko was resolved, by playing an empty triangle that peeped at a cutting point but the computer is adamant that he was winning only if he played a normal move and even winning by huge 8 points! It can be hard to impossible to tell for sure who is ahead after large exchanges, it is plausible for even top players to make mistakes if they try to clinch on a perceived lead a bit too early but this is overthinking, instead consider the example of Fujisawa Hideyuki who would rage at his students if he saw them play moves with the sole aim of winning, tell them what they were doing was not Go and order them to start over. Is Ichiriki guilty of trying to win?
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CDavis7M
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Well, you could say the same thing about Iyama in at least one, maybe two, of the recent Kisei matches. I'd have to go back and check.
I think almost all of these reading issues happen when the clock is out or almost out. For sure the second recorder has already shown up to see the mistake. Would be such a novelty to see Iyama and Ichiriki play a longer game. It could be like the Castle games -- don't leave the board until you're done. But they have no time for that between all their other matches.
I think almost all of these reading issues happen when the clock is out or almost out. For sure the second recorder has already shown up to see the mistake. Would be such a novelty to see Iyama and Ichiriki play a longer game. It could be like the Castle games -- don't leave the board until you're done. But they have no time for that between all their other matches.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Thinking about Ichiriki I went back and found this tweet from TsuruRin (Tsuruyama Atsushi and Rin Kanketsu. Looks like Cho U challenging Rin and Ichiriki during a break at the climbing gym. https://twitter.com/TsuruLinChannel/sta ... 29/photo/1
- Bouldering Study Group.png (430.27 KiB) Viewed 61508 times
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kvasir
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Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Consider this game, Ichiriki is black and at kadoban in the Honinbo. Black didn't have to play anything locally and when he captures stones with 
and 
he is protecting against something white can't exploit without first winning the ko. It is an extremely thick way to play but also slow because white will need to capture in the ko to even play .
Alternatively black could have played like this computer aided variation (or white can play
at 
or 
to similar effect if slightly different). This might look like a big reading problem but I don't think it is, it is about recognizing that especially in the first diagram is protecting a weakness that white can't strike at. There is no way this is the move, there is no need for this move and white gets to start the ko. If black was winning it could have the feeling that he is clinching the lead and eliminating the bad aji, but that is why I brought up Fujisawa who would tell his students, if they backed down from a challenge, that what they were doing was not Go.
I wonder if he might have overcompensated in the search for the right balance to beat Iyama. It is also exciting to see if he can break the losing streak.
and he is protecting against something white can't exploit without first winning the ko. It is an extremely thick way to play but also slow because white will need to capture in the ko to even play . Alternatively black could have played like this computer aided variation (or white can play
at or to similar effect if slightly different). This might look like a big reading problem but I don't think it is, it is about recognizing that especially in the first diagram is protecting a weakness that white can't strike at. There is no way this is the move, there is no need for this move and white gets to start the ko. If black was winning it could have the feeling that he is clinching the lead and eliminating the bad aji, but that is why I brought up Fujisawa who would tell his students, if they backed down from a challenge, that what they were doing was not Go.
I wonder if he might have overcompensated in the search for the right balance to beat Iyama. It is also exciting to see if he can break the losing streak.