It is currently Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:22 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #21 Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:10 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 48
Liked others: 37
Was liked: 15
Rank: 7k
Speaking of NHK Cup, does anyone know why the Asian TV Cup hasn't been held since 2019? Is it because they don't want to hold it online? I'd be keen to see Ichiriki take on Shin Jinseo at fast time controls.


This post by gazzawhite was liked by: Elom0
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #22 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:21 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
Ichiriki will challenge Iyama in the Honinbo for the first time.

Ichiriki beat Yo Seiki today in the play-off, after Yo lost to Shibano in the last game. Too bad, I wanted Yo to be the challenger.

If Ichiriki wins the title, then the papers can talk about a new era. The answer, before summer.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #23 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:31 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
Yeah, I was rooting for Yo Seiki also but Ichiriki showed his strength. I reviewed the broadcast quickly but it seems like Ichiriki kept the initiative since the beginning.

Now he's off to get married to Iyama at the Kinkeikaku wedding shrine 金渓閣. The venue looks very nice. https://kinkeikaku.official-wedding.jp/

Image

Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #24 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:47 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 855
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 166
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
pajaro wrote:
Today, Ichiriki Ryo beat Iyama Yuta in the 7th game of the Kisei, and won the match 4-3, after being 3-1 and losing 2 deciding games. I think you only call it "kadoban" from the point of view of the player behind, but well.

Ichiriki is the new Kisei, after 9 years of Iyama Kisei, and a failed attempt (0-4) some years ago and other defeats in other titles.

How will this change the Japanese go scene? We'll see.


Now he has lost 5 games in a row against Iyama. That despite having some very favorable positions. It is no record, though. If gorating.com is a good source (could be for the top players) then he lost 13 games in a row to Iyama between December 2016 and February 2018. Not sure which is more surprising, that their clashes have been so lopsided at times or how many games they have been playing each other.

Somehow Ichiriki is almost always the challenger despite last year's challenger usually being thrown in with the next 20 or so players every year to fight for the right to challenge again.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #25 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:54 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
For a long time, nobody has had a good record against Iyama. In Japan, of course.

Ichiriki from 2016 and the current Ichiriki are not the same player. Who is the same person, 6 years later? Iyama was already a multiple title holder. It is only natural that the gap closes a bit. But not enough.

After winning the Kisei, 5 loses in a row is very hard. I can't judge his go strength. I can't say if he is playing worse, I can't point at his mistakes... But I guess that his head has a lot to do. I have said this before, in mental strength Iyama is waaay above his rivals, IMHO. When I see them playing, there is something in Ichiriki's body language... I always think that he's having a very hard time.


Last edited by pajaro on Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #26 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:54 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
kvasir wrote:
Somehow Ichiriki is almost always the challenger despite last year's challenger usually being thrown in with the next 20 or so players every year to fight for the right to challenge again.

I feel like it's the Iyama and Ichiriki show. A week or two ago I went back to see how much they have been playing and I realized it was not quite as much as I thought it was. It's definitely true that they've been playing together a lot recently but Iyama had plenty of different challengers in the last couple years. Shibano challenged the Honinbo the previous 2 times and the Meijin the previous time. And Kono Rin challenged the Kisei before Ichiriki took it.

But yeah, a bunch of the recent title matches have been Iyama vs Ichiriki (including all of the 2 day matches, so double the video streams):
-current Gosei title
-Honinbo
-Kisei
-Meijin (2021)
-Gosei (2021)

Also:
-Oza tournament final-round (streamed)

I feel like they have had other non-title match games on stream but I can't remember.

Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #27 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:29 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 855
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 166
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
They are 8 - 4 so far this year but Ichiriki lost the last 5 games. The thing is that Ichiriki is 27 - 13 so far this year in his official games and excluding Iyama he is at 23 - 5. This is a very solid performance. On the other hand Iyama is at 13 - 9 and only 5 - 5 when excluding Ichiriki. It is a fantastic performance by Ichiriki this year, winning the Kisei and NHK, but with 5 loses in a row in the never ending matchup I am wondering if there is a phycological problem for him going into these games with Iyama.

It could also be that he is overcompensating by trying to avoid wild upsets when he is ahead, something that has happened often against Iyama. In one of the lost games there was a ko that was resolved by Ichiriki in a way that just can't be right. In another game he seemed to try to clinch the win, after a ko was resolved, by playing an empty triangle that peeped at a cutting point but the computer is adamant that he was winning only if he played a normal move and even winning by huge 8 points! It can be hard to impossible to tell for sure who is ahead after large exchanges, it is plausible for even top players to make mistakes if they try to clinch on a perceived lead a bit too early but this is overthinking, instead consider the example of Fujisawa Hideyuki who would rage at his students if he saw them play moves with the sole aim of winning, tell them what they were doing was not Go and order them to start over. Is Ichiriki guilty of trying to win?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #28 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:00 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
Well, you could say the same thing about Iyama in at least one, maybe two, of the recent Kisei matches. I'd have to go back and check.

I think almost all of these reading issues happen when the clock is out or almost out. For sure the second recorder has already shown up to see the mistake. Would be such a novelty to see Iyama and Ichiriki play a longer game. It could be like the Castle games -- don't leave the board until you're done. But they have no time for that between all their other matches.


This post by CDavis7M was liked by: Ferran
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #29 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:38 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
Thinking about Ichiriki I went back and found this tweet from TsuruRin (Tsuruyama Atsushi and Rin Kanketsu. Looks like Cho U challenging Rin and Ichiriki during a break at the climbing gym. https://twitter.com/TsuruLinChannel/sta ... 29/photo/1
Attachment:
Bouldering Study Group.png
Bouldering Study Group.png [ 430.27 KiB | Viewed 10719 times ]

Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #30 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:11 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 855
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 166
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
Consider this game, Ichiriki is black and at kadoban in the Honinbo. Black didn't have to play anything locally and when he captures stones with :b2: and :b4: he is protecting against something white can't exploit without first winning the ko. It is an extremely thick way to play but also slow because white will need to capture in the ko to even play :b4:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . O O . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O X X O . . X 4 O 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O . . . X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X X X O O O O O X 5 |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . X O O O X X X O X X X |
$$ | . . . . 6 3 X X O O . O X 7 X X X O O |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . , X X O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O O X O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Alternatively black could have played like this computer aided variation (or white can play :w2: at :b3: or :w4: to similar effect if slightly different). This might look like a big reading problem but I don't think it is, it is about recognizing that especially :b4: in the first diagram is protecting a weakness that white can't strike at. There is no way this is the move, there is no need for this move and white gets to start the ko. If black was winning it could have the feeling that he is clinching the lead and eliminating the bad aji, but that is why I brought up Fujisawa who would tell his students, if they backed down from a challenge, that what they were doing was not Go.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O 3 . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . O O . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O X X O . . X 5 O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O . . . X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X X X O O O O O X 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X O X X X |
$$ | . . . 7 1 . X X O O . O X 6 X X X O O |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . , X X O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O O X O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wonder if he might have overcompensated in the search for the right balance to beat Iyama. It is also exciting to see if he can break the losing streak.


This post by kvasir was liked by: CDavis7M
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #31 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:17 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 612
Liked others: 148
Was liked: 117
Rank: OGS ddk
KGS: Ferran
IGS: Ferran
OGS: Ferran
CDavis7M wrote:
Thinking about Ichiriki I went back and found this tweet from TsuruRin (Tsuruyama Atsushi and Rin Kanketsu. Looks like Cho U challenging Rin and Ichiriki during a break at the climbing gym.


They've resurrected the kiseisha?

Take care.

_________________
玄 又 玄

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #32 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:24 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
Ferran wrote:
They've resurrected the kiseisha?
Well, I was just reading about the kiseisha name (棋正社) because of the Ki-in's centennial. I'll take this opportunity to practice my Japanese and share how I found the tweet. I recognize 正 "sei" in Kiseisha from the "seikai" 正解 label for the "correct interpretation" (solution) in tsumego books. So did the Kiseisha think they were more correct? Probably?

Anyway, the Kiseisha was a "sha" (棋社 - Chess/Go association) while the Nihon Ki-in is an "in" (棋院 -chess/Go institution/school). And then these guys are merely a 研究会 kenkyūkai. But how I found the tweet is that I remembered this was a "rock climbing study group." Actually, a "bouldering" study group. Bouldering is just rock climbing short walls without a rope or harness and can be done solo.

I had to google to remember the word but it's just "borudaringu" study group -- not a separate "association." I've seen some other pictures of Tsuruyama and Rin climbing, and Ichiriki climbing with another group of younger players.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #33 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:01 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
kvasir wrote:
Alternatively black could have played like this computer aided variation (or white can play :w2: at :b3: or :w4: to similar effect if slightly different). This might look like a big reading problem but I don't think it is, it is about recognizing that especially :b4: in the first diagram is protecting a weakness that white can't strike at. There is no way this is the move, there is no need for this move and white gets to start the ko.
Now that you mentioned this ko-issue I'm pretty sure I remember the Japanese fans in the Nihon Kiin live-chat saying something similar. Or something about the AI assessment.

I checked the live stream again and for what it's worth, the commentator Obuchi Kotaro 5-dan gave a variation playing :b4:. His father, Mr. Obuchi 9-dan showed up. So I learn of another Go-family. https://youtu.be/mbpz0p25ALI?t=8402
Attachment:
Obuchi.PNG
Obuchi.PNG [ 376.12 KiB | Viewed 10656 times ]

Honinbo Chikun shows up and gave another variation. He's with Omori Ran who seems to show up all the time. I think Cho actually picked up on the issue you mentioned. My Japanese is bad and this video is especially terrible with background noise and the masks, but he points to where :b4: was played and I think he says "chisai this, chisai that". Chisai is "small". https://youtu.be/mbpz0p25ALI?t=10131
Attachment:
Chisai.PNG
Chisai.PNG [ 360.5 KiB | Viewed 10656 times ]

So maybe you have a good point. Ichiriki made a "5-dan mistake." Cho Chikun saw that the move was small and Ichiriki should have should have realized that he needed to spend more time on his assessment. We can let Mr. Obuchi 9-dan off easy as he just showed up).

...or maybe it was really tough, Cho had hindsight of the AI assessment changing, and we should give Ichiriki a break.

Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #34 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:07 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 855
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 166
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
Ichiriki lost the second game Gosei game in a fight that was very complicated. I think the engine evaluation was that it was in his favor up until it wasn't anymore :roll: The third game is starting right now, I should check but Ichiriki has lost 6 games in a row against Iyama if there weren't any other games in past couple of weeks. It is a giant phycological showdown and is relayed on Pandanet and there is livestream on the Nihon Kiin youtoube channel.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #35 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:02 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
kvasir wrote:
Ichiriki lost the second game Gosei game in a fight that was very complicated. I think the engine evaluation was that it was in his favor up until it wasn't anymore :roll: The third game is starting right now, I should check but Ichiriki has lost 6 games in a row against Iyama if there weren't any other games in past couple of weeks. It is a giant phycological showdown and is relayed on Pandanet and there is livestream on the Nihon Kiin youtoube channel.

Did you see that picture of 20 year old Iyama?
Ichiriki needed to come in with anime punk hair if he wants to keep taking titles. Turn the tables.

-----
I missed most of the commentary but game 3 reminds me of that proverb about only having 1 week group.

The Gosei is only a 5 game match. I'm hoping to get more steamed games from it.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #36 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:49 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
Ichiriki lost to Iyama... again.

He was behind from the beginning. Usually, in top games, I see that players tend to resign as late as possible. This game took 154 moves. Not too many.

I wonder what must be happening inside Ichiriki's head... That's 7 games lost in a row. Two titles against Iyama with perfect score (for the opponent).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #37 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:14 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1734
Liked others: 171
Was liked: 485
The game:



Attachment:
gosei-gosei-2022-07-27.sgf [1.19 KiB]
Downloaded 542 times

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #38 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:17 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
pajaro wrote:
I wonder what must be happening inside Ichiriki's head... That's 7 games lost in a row. Two titles against Iyama with perfect score (for the opponent).
Not just 2. Years ago when Ichiriki started playing Iyama, a few of his title challenges were shutdown without a win. I made a post with their title game records somewhere here.

----------

I was reading that centennial article in Go World 碁ワールド describing how Iyama Yuta started to take titles away from the Heisei top 4 at the age of 20. And he continued to do well against those 4.

This morning I read the Japanese Wikipedia article on Iyama and saw that starting back in 2019 the newspapers (and even the Nihon Ki-in themselves) have been wondering whether Iyama's reign is over and whether he can withstand the new wave of young players (the 3 Crows of Reiwa). Iyama is now 33 compared to Ichiriki (25), Kyo Kagen (24), and Shibano Toramaru (22) (I guess not Seki Koutarou). I used to feel the same way: Iyama has won so much and good for him but now it's time for the new wave to take over. Time to see new faces.

But as Iyama continued to do well, and even started to make a come back, I began to like him more and more. Of course I always respected him but I was not cheering for him. But in the past year or so I started to cheer for him. Especially after his great success in the Nongshim Cup. I'm just an Iyama fan now.

I did want Ichiriki to win another title and it's awesome for him to hold Kisei. But for now I'm more excited to see how long Iyama can fend off Ichiriki rather than being excited for Ichriki to win.

By the way, I thought I remember seeing something about Iyama having a child but I can't find it now. I know he got remarried a few years ago, after being single for a few years after divorcing a Shogi player that he married when he was young.

Anyway, I have respect for the older players and that's part of why I'm an Iyama fan. I especially respect players that have a family and still manage to do well. Cho U seems like such a fun guy and a great dad and he still makes it to the top rounds. If Iyama does have kids, or has them soon, maybe his priorities will change even if he could have found a way to stay on top. And Ichiriki is not that young. So I wonder if or when he will want to get married and have children. And there's still that newspaper job waiting for him...

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #39 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:25 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
When Ichiriki lost titles with all loses, you could say "it's Iyama, there is a gap in strength" and so on. But now, they are supposed to be more or less even. Ichiriki has taken the Kisei. How can you think that he is below Iyama? And still... The 7 straight loses now are more noticeable than years ago.

I don't know were you read about Iyama's son, but I wrote about it. I think it was in the Amazon thread. Many female players can't study and play as before having kids, so I said something like now that Iyama is a father, will he lower his performance? I answer now: nope, he must have realized that raising a child is very expensive... :mrgreen:

Ichiriki does very well against everybody but Iyama. But unless he can control his head... He could be preventing other players to challenge Iyama, only to lose in the final match.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Ichiriki Ryo
Post #40 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:03 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
pajaro wrote:
I don't know were you read about Iyama's son, but I wrote about it. I think it was in the Amazon thread.
Oh maybe. I was looking online and couldn't find any article. Thanks for confirming. Do you happen to remember where you read about it?

And yes, the women do have a tougher time maintaining their skills if they have children.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 68 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kvasir and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group