HermanHiddema wrote:So I came accross this trick play:
$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
What are your thoughts? How to respond?
Some ideas:
$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 4 6 8 . . .
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . 7 . .
$$ | . . . , 5 . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . 9 . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 4 6 8 . . .
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . 7 . .
$$ | . . . , 5 . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . 9 . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
White ends up very low
(...)
Very interesting position$$B starting position
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 b . . . . .
$$ | . . a O . . . . .
$$ | . c d . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B starting position
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 b . . . . .
$$ | . . a O . . . . .
$$ | . c d . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
AJust
above looked submissive to me, hence I would try to
induce it by cutting first,
to make it look like a good move.
$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 8 7 . . . .
$$ | . . 2 O 3 6 . . .
$$ | . . . 5 4 . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 8 7 . . . .
$$ | . . 2 O 3 6 . . .
$$ | . . . 5 4 . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
However ...
$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . .
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 O 3 . . . .
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
if B then also exchanges
to this here,
then I am back to square one in this
'fight for shape'.
Here I would like to ponder further on (which I cannot do right now (work
))
Very difficult (because evaluation of shapes) and I just gave my initial thoughts.
All other diagrams I evaluate prima facie inferior anyway.Going back to the
starting position, we see that you offered options A to D until now.
DMany dan players would (appeal to authority) - agree with me that option D appears to be
one of the worst shapes in general.
In vicinity of the edge, the corner and in need for sente, there might be exceptions (which might 'proof the rule'
- still, I am not convinced.
B Your diagram for B has some appeal to me. However, B could reduce immediately a W wall to nothing. Only possible if there would be already a W stone in a decent distance.
C In contrast, option C looks so good for B, as you could imagine another B stone at one of the options you gave (B11 = C).
For full-board evaluation I had to
discount the tally then, i.e. that B would have played twice more in this position (the 'hamete' + the last gote).
This is a difficult mental operation, as I do not know WHAT could have been played elsewhere. If I assume two corner stones or 1 shimari for White, then I still might prefer this option for White.
$$B B11 = C
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . d 3 O . . . . a
$$ | . 2 4 5 7 . . . .
$$ | . . B 6 9 . . . .
$$ | . . 8 0 B . . . .
$$ | . . . . . b . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B B11 = C
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . d 3 O . . . . a
$$ | . 2 4 5 7 . . . .
$$ | . . B 6 9 . . . .
$$ | . . 8 0 B . . . .
$$ | . . . . . b . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
at a, b, c or tenuki, depending on the position?
makes d sente for black as well, but when do you play it?
stone. 
and 
stone is outside and influences the rest of the game. Normally, this is just better for white than the above two diagrams.
in the diagram) instead of invading 3-3 directly.
@ 
I think one of your variations is better without the ladder, though I've seen worse. That single captured stone has some useful aji still.
to get 
and 
, but I would like to say that your first post is a great result for White in my opinion. (where you say White ended up too low)