Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

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shapenaji
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by shapenaji »

Approved
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Gresil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 131 W64 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O B |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Any other move than T13 here will lead to W P15. The following sequence (up to :b5: taking the ko) looks forced to me, but what do I know?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 131 W64 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X 3 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So you've got an eye?
That don't impress me much
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Violence »

Daniel's trigger resolves, he approves, I approve.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Trigger:
If Terr plays T9, I approve
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Chew Terr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 132 W65 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O C |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X W |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by shapenaji »

Triggered, I also approve... let the ko begin!
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Gresil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 133 W65 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O C |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X B |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So you've got an eye?
That don't impress me much
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Approved, naturally...
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Violence »

Approved.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Chew Terr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Move 134 W65 B58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 2 |
$$ | . O O O 3 . . . . . . . . . O O X X C |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X B |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Pardon the trigger, but in a ko, some things are obvious.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Move 134 W65 B58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . b . O X e . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X a . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . c . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 2 |
$$ | . O O O d . . . . . . . . . O O X X C |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X B |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay, we can't win this ko fight. This basically makes the whole game look... iffy. We can either use or threats to try to live on top (a, b, or e), or we can sacrifice all of the top+right, consider that we have thickness in the whole rest of the board, and try to put it to work ASAP. I think I'm going to go with 'd', on the latter plan. 'd' accomplishes similar things to 'c', threatening to kill the big group above and setting adrift the stones below. If white captures the ko (seems like they will), I intend to push and cut. I'll also look at just atari-ing after the ko capture, though.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Move approved. Must think about trigger.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by daniel_the_smith »

I'm fine with 135. I think we all are... >.<
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by shapenaji »

Wait, Joaz, did you approve 136?
Chew's move at 136 is a very big threat, but if we play it, we have no choice but to kill, better to live the top. It threatens the life of the black top group.
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

shapenaji wrote:Wait, Joaz, did you approve 136?


No. I didn't disapprove either.

Hmmm...the rules are not clear here. Are we waiting on me or the white team?
I gotta see if there is something better for a ko threat. N17 or G7 may be better.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I'm assuming that all white players will want to take the ko.

We can make a ko threat to save our group:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . 4 . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 6 O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X C C C C C X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X C 3 X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X C C C |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X C 1 |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 2 O 1 5 4 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 7 3 O . O X 8 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and - I didn't see this earlier - it may end in sente!

If they tenuki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . X X O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 2 3 . X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 4 X O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It is a flower-viewing ko for us. I haven't read all variations, but we can live, and as best I can tell we live with sente.

So..


I don't approve of the trigger.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Move 134 W65 B60
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 3 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 2 |
$$ | . O O O C . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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