34. Magicwand (3d) vs. Kirby (1d)

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed May 19, 2010 8:36 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm104 Move 104 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . B O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Well, I was a bit wrong. I don't think I can get sente with my last move. It's OK, though, because this move takes away some of white's points.

I was hoping that I might get sente because of something like the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 3 . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O 1 O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X 5 6 | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X 4 8 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O 7 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . 9 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

... but it doesn't seem to work out with the current board positions - my cutting stones don't have enough liberties, especially since we didn't do the 1-3 exchange, above...

I could consider tenuki-ing... There may be a way to live if I tenuki. But the problem is that white has sente to cut off my stone and grab a lot of points. There's probably more than 10 points that he can get here in sente if I tenuki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . 2 X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . 1 O . x | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O x X x x x | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O x x x x O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O x x x O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Furthermore, the move I played still allows for me to play around with the aji later, and possibly get more points.

I predict black will attack the bottom left corner now.

@shultz

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed May 19, 2010 8:48 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm105 Move 105 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed May 19, 2010 9:38 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm106 Move 106 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Normally, I would pincer this stone. But I don't want to fight and complicate the game. White has a great wall of power in the center. I need to get points.

If I pincer, I have a feeling he will counter pincer, and I don't like that:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . 7 X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X 6 . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O 4 5 . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . 2 , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I can pincer further away, but white can easily counter pincer later. It will be safe for him because he has so much power in the center.

I could try to grab more territory on the top, but white can make a good position on the side:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . 1 . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't like this.

The move I played is not severe on white, so I suspect it may be criticized. But I cannot think of a way to make a more severe move work safely... So I will not play that way for now.

I'd be very interested in learning a better way to handle this board position. I wonder if other people think that I should put more pressure on white. What do you think? I'm interested to know.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:07 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 106 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is better, IMO. It is true that White's thickness speaks against a severe attack. However, letting White have an easy two space extension is too lax. This pincer restricts White to an extension to "a". Also, if White now invades at "b", Black has room to extend to "a". Then neither invasion will have a base, but Black will.

prokofiev · Post by **prokofiev** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:18 am

Bill Spight wrote:
$$Bc Move 106 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 106 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is better, IMO. It is true that White's thickness speaks against a severe attack. However, letting White have an easy two space extension is too lax. This pincer restricts White to an extension to "a". Also, if White now invades at "b", Black has room to extend to "a". Then neither invasion will have a base, but Black will.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 106 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . 3 . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This way Black "gets the last (big) move" though. How much does this matter?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 106 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . 4 . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . 1 , 3 . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Is white okay here after taking the big move on the top? (Maybe 3 isn't best, but substitute some similar move if you prefer.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 106 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . 3 . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . 1 , 5 . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . 4 . 6 . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This way there's a fight.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed May 19, 2010 5:11 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm106 Move 106 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed May 19, 2010 6:30 pm

I forgot that today was my wedding anniversary. I found out after my wife told me when I got home from work today :roll:

I have to do some stuff with my wife! I'll make a move a bit later today.

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Wed May 19, 2010 8:17 pm

For observers mostly, and for players after game is over.

Magicwand wrote:
$$Bcm105 Move 105 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm105 Move 105 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This should be white's resign move. This game way too one sided, especially when white is not reading seriously enough for this game. Agree? Disagree?

I think magicwand is just not taking this as seriously as kirby. No matter what variation white follows here, none of them have a good enough follow-up to make use of his k16 wall, in my(flawed?) opinion

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed May 19, 2010 9:09 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm108 Move 108 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . B . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The basic reason I want to play this move is to prevent white from playing in the same spot. My bottom left corner can be exploited, I think, but it is too slow to play there and defend right now.

For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . 2 . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . 1 O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

in the diagram above secures the corner more, but I think :w2:

is more valuable. It puts pressure on my top left enclosure, and works decently with his wall. Maybe it's a little bit close to his wall, but I can't afford to let him get a lot of points.

I considered playing an attacking move against white's base such as here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , B . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but I don't see a huge benefit that I can get from the attack, since white has a lot of influence in the area already.

I could also try to exploit the bottom:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . B . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but white is basically safe.

So that's why I decided to take a big point at the top.

1.) It prevents white from playing there.
2.) It helps my corner enclosure to be stronger.
3.) It gains me points.
4.) It makes me slightly stronger if I ever did want to attack his two stone base on the left (which seems rather unlikely, I think).

My first choice for a top-side move was not the move I played, though. I first wanted to play a two-space extension... But I think it is too close to his wall. I don't particularly like the following sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Diagram Kirb $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 7 3 4 . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X 6 2 1 . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X . 9 8 5 . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X X O 1 . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X O O X . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X . X O X . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , 2 . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but it was the best response I could really think of to :w2:

and

from "Diagram Kirb". If I don't atari at :b5:

in "Diagram Kirb", white can cut off my stones, unless white does the following, which I also don't like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 3 4 9 . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . 2 1 7 . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X . . . 8 6 . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . a . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , 0 . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I can still get in at "a", but I feel like white has some possibilities for making sizable territory with his wall.

So, I think that the very basic one space jump seems safer. It's not too close to his wall. It still prevents white from extending nicely. It still grabs points. And it helps me for basically the same reasons as the two point jump did - it just doesn't grab quite as many points right now. But later, I could do a knight's move, for example. I think it's an OK move.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed May 19, 2010 9:43 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm109 Move 109 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . X . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . W . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Jedo · Post by **Jedo** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:00 pm

ketchup wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
$$Bcm105 Move 105 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm105 Move 105 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This should be white's resign move. This game way too one sided, especially when white is not reading seriously enough for this game. Agree? Disagree?

I think magicwand is just not taking this as seriously as kirby. No matter what variation white follows here, none of them have a good enough follow-up to make use of his k16 wall, in my(flawed?) opinion

Aphelion · Post by **Aphelion** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:44 pm

quantumf · Post by **quantumf** » Thu May 20, 2010 8:58 am

Aphelion wrote:
I don't know about the effectiveness in terms of winning the game, but I can never bring myself to play the last two moves Kirby just did. They just feel so submissive and fearful...I think he could at least have went 1 space longer with both those extensions.

However, I am several stones weaker than him and I can't count, so maybe its my own judgement at issue here.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Thu May 20, 2010 9:03 am

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu May 20, 2010 9:36 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm110 Move 110 - Prisoners: B=3, W=1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . X . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . B X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Well, this hurts me a bit in the balance of points. I thought he would attack the bottom left a bit sooner, but it still hurts. This is another reason why I think that E2 was a really bad move.

I can't read out a way to kill white. If I resist in other ways, it doesn't seem to work, and perhaps even puts me into danger.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . X . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . 5 X a . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . 4 6 7 . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . W 1 . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . . 2 3 X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For example, above, the cutting point at "a" is pretty dangerous for me. White takes my points, and it's not a great result.

Or I could do:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . . . . X . X . . . O X X . O O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O O X X X X . . X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X X O | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . O O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X X . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . X . , X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . O | $$ | . 5 X a . . . . . X . X X O . . . O . | $$ | . 4 6 7 . O . . . O X O O . . O O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X | $$ | . . W . 1 O . . . . . . X O O O X X . | $$ | . 8 . 2 X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . | $$ | . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and the cutting point is still dangerous.

I can't really think of a way to kill white. It could exist, but I can't seem to figure it out.

So I played the move I did. It is unfortunate that he gets more points and I get fewer, but I think that I am still ahead. I think that I can still win this game.

I think the score is kind of close in terms of territory. Maybe I have around 50 or 55, and he has around 45 or 50. That's my rough estimate. So it's still anybody's game. I will try to make it mine, though.

Life In 19x19

34. Magicwand (3d) vs. Kirby (1d)

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2